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FiiO X5s Digital Audio Player

FiiO X5s Digital Audio Player

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Product Description
Store more songs than ever before and listen in high resolution with the new FiiO X5s. Identical to FiiO’s highly-regarded X5 III in every respect except internal memory, the X5s packs an impressive 64 gigabytes of onboard memory—double that of the X5 III Read More

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Lightning fast??? They seriously want to market it with puffery like this? Don't get me wrong, the X5iii sounds really good. But, by today's standards this device is ridiculously slow. Perhaps if it were 1980 and this model was introduced it would be considered "lightning fast.". ..but by today's standards it would be like buying the original iPhone. You'll get frustrated rather quickly just waiting for it to boot.
FISTDEYUMA
65
Sep 28, 2019
All thought of getting this ended with the USB micro. I had also read that it was not up to par sound wise. However, the price was such that I could overlook that. I was going to use it as a feeder for my headphone amp anyway, which has it's own DAC. However I have no desire to have to swap the USB B to USB C for a USB B to USB micro. It is one of the reason I'm disappointed with my Onkyo DP-X1 I got for cheap. Really, there is no excuse for not using a USB C these days.
Whitedragem
185
Nov 9, 2019
I might be missinterpreting the word “transporter’. In the last two posts I am hearing it used to refer to the software that plays back the music files, and/or the hardware device that plays back the music files. Whilst I do agree that excellent playback software and, more so, drivers and ‘control’ software (eg the OS) can affect the sound quality output of given hardware... software cannot vastly fix bad clock/jitter and other aspects that are set at a hardware level. Sometimes, such as with APt X, which was initially sold to us as ‘hardware requirement’, was opened up as ‘software’, and has retroactivley been added to much playback equipment.. generally when we buy playback equipment we need to get equipment that gets it right in the first instance, as the hardware sound output can be tailored by software only so much, and certain aspects (eg jitter) cannot be reclaimed/made ‘better’. When I talk ‘transport’ I refer to the hardware aspect of the sound. Personally I have NO DESIRE for upgradable software/ apps, I came from an era of walkmans etc, where the physical controls might of, at best, been supplemented by some ‘remote controls’ on the headphone cable.. but generally what you bought out of the box initially/from the store, was what you had to use with that equipment for the life of the product. My nineties walkman and minidisc player still play and give excellent sound (both were flagship parts with attention being given to sound quality, although the walkman is pretty special, as on a single AA battery it can run for many hours...). When I buy a DAP; so long as it is functional and gives basic features like shuffle and ability to build a playlist ‘on device’, I am generally happy with THAT basic functionality. The transport aspect is simply how great it is at actually passing the digital bits, and might extend at a software level to ‘gapless playback’ support. I would never go ‘online’ with my DAP, so wireless might be useful to hook up some bluetooth speakers, or remote interface (eg my phone as a remote to control my DAP being digitally fed into the home HiFi), but I wouldn’t purchase a small personal audio device that HAS TO BE a ‘swiss army knife’. If so I am happy with the basic model with the blade and bottle opener, but can forgo the mini saw and tooth pick. If I need a saw, a dedicated saw would be better every time. That is my attitude to dedicated devices. (less is more). I understand many put up great arguments for why a specific player is ‘no good’ because it cannot run spotify etc.. I understand we all have different uses for our equipment, and , as the market trends in different directions it might be nice to have our middle tier (reasonable price point) audio equipment be ‘upgradeable’ to future trends and to continue to deliver excellent sound whatever we might choose to do with it... To be fair I wasn’t upset when my walkman couldn’t play minidiscs. Whilst both my units were made by Sony, the minidisc wasn’t even a gleam in their fathers eye when my walkman was designed or bought by me... The walkman still does its’ dedicated function perfectly. Thats what I seek in a consumer purchase. Specific tasks done well. I am yet to see a phone do any aspect of what a mid tier DAP actually does. By the spec sheet they both playback audio files etc, but I really wish consumers understood that the quality of the output far exceeds being ‘compatible’ with music playback. The difference of a well set up audio system is stunning. Well setup requires a certain system synergy, and an output sound that makes one ‘tap their foot’ (often somewhat involuntary).. music as it used to be sold (back in STEREO days) was truly HiFi. Majority of the ‘Hi Res’ products I see for sale are so far from being musical. They generally read very well at the spec sheet level.. Which takes me back to being a teenager and selling off my 100W surround receiver, which did video switching, had an equaliser, tonnes of inputs, ridiculous power output and lots of soundfields (echo) and cool gizmos and lights and all sorts of fruit. I traded it in for the most entry level 30watt stereo amp (with a source direct button). Nearly a decade later I then learned that real hifi components ofter read worse than my little 30Watt musical amp, at the spec sheet level,.. and that some aspects of musicality do not translate well to ‘numbers’ on a piece of paper. Very easy to manipulate those numbers to seem like one product can match another.. but oh so far from the truth... as most of what really matters is never discussed (or else the marketing companies would have nothing to sell). In TV terms it would be like buying QLED over OLED (Q is after O in the alphabet), and never even knowing about MOTION RESOLUTION. Lots of times an inferior looking spec sheet is the vastly better performing product. Sadly too many consumers want to educate why their more impressive sounding spec sheet parts are superior. PowerPC CPUS want to have a word with you!! (a 300mhz RISC chip(CPU) often outperformed a 700Mhz CISC chip,.. but hey lets not let facts get in the way of understanding that bigger numbers HAVE TO BE BETTER, right?) Anyhow, as a transport, if hardware can resolve all of the information correctly, with accurate positioning AND subtle nuances, developing real ‘texture’ in the sound etc.. then I say well done. I will buy a piece of equipment that performs the function (in the case of Digital Audio Players; playing back audio) it is intended for, and does so well. I like one box units that do one thing well. I will add more boxes if that is required. If one part breaks, one part goes to the repair shop and I continue using the remainder of the playback chain.. (home hifi).. if a DAP, I might use a DAC external, and an amp external.. but, that DAP better get lifting the sound files ‘right’. Most people like their phones as a player,.. they say how easy it is too use, how easy it is to get on the net, how easy it is to get the latest software, etc.. it ISNT so easy to (enjoy) listening too(if you’ve ever heard nice playback equipment), but hey - it gets ‘so much other stuff’ right. Many people= many usage scenarios. All products offer usage scenario for someone. I don’t write off phones as audio players; they are the most used audio players presently sold. Most used cameras as well... (I used to work retail in a dedicated camera/photography store).. lets just say I COULD offer ‘two cents’ with regards to “phone cameras”, but- they work for many and are always on hand. I don’t use one; and I appreciate my old camera which doesn’t hook up to the net and allow software downloads and bluetooth five etc. To each their own. I don’t measure cameras by megapixel either. My go to camera is a four megapixel (fovean) from the 2000’s. Or a Fuji X-Trans. Both give vastly more resolution than their ‘spec sheets’ would suggest. Both give beaut colour and contrast, arguably the two most important things to ‘get right’. Neither camera systems sound saleable vs spec sheet warrior competition.. DAPs are harder to qualify, mostly because majority of the planet haven’t heard really high fidelity sound. eg a system that renders compressed music files unlistenable. My young child can detect compressed music in a heartbeat. To us, it is ‘without soul’ and mostly unlistenable. I did have to source them a ‘true’ hifi system, as the playback music being hard to resolve (eg Nine Inch Nails) requires top tier equipment. Not wishing to invest crazy dollars into the parts as modern equipment would require, I simply spent a few hundred on the second hand market. Speakers from the seventies etc... That ‘toe tapping’ set of equipment resolves well and makes musical stuff that I haven’t heard sound ‘so good’ in a long time. Even though the same music files have been played through flagship (>$6500) receivers with attention given to every part of the system (cables/power isolation etc). You can only polish a turd so much.. DAPs have a hard time selling into a world where everybody can dismiss them, not based on sound quality, but rather on ‘future market standards adoption or some other ridiculous goal post’. Sound advice often isn’t. (Follow me and I will lead you BACK from the long lost garden path to nowhere...)
FISTDEYUMA
65
Nov 10, 2019
WhitedragemIn the current context a "transporter" is a device that feeds the music from another source to your music system. I have a server with a lot of music. I can used a phone or DAP via WiFI and the USB C port to feed the data from the server using wireless and into my DAC which feeds it to the AMP which feeds it to my headphones. Ideally it will give me pure data without changing a thing. Being it is zero and ones, it should be possible. The Phone or DAP should not effect the music at all. It is only to transport the music from one place to another. My hope is that the music is transported to my ears unmodified. We all know that this is unrealistic. I can tell the difference between a good DAC or Amp and a bad one. I have no idea if others can do that. Often it is a matter of tolerance of the distortion. Back in the 90's I was happy to have a 16mb mp3 player. It let me listen to my music in places I could not hear it before. It was small and held more than a CD, making it far better than a portable CD player. Today I would never use such a devise, even if my ears are nowhere as good now than then. Ten years ago I was very happy with my HD 600. Today I only listen with my HD 800s. The HD600 is still used with gaming. If something happened that we could not have high end headphones, then the HD600 would be king. However, those of us who listened to a HD800s will know they are not getting the best sound. Some people believe the best headphones are Beats, cans I would not pay 10 bucks for. They have marketed distortion and people are happy with it. In the HIFI world we are after pure music or music exactly the way the artist wanted it to sound. Some have taken it to the extreme, such as going back to vinyl. I was happy to leave vinyl as I hated changing music every half hour. Is vinyl better sounding? Of course it is, in a perfect setup. The average setup will have pops an clicks I find intolerable today. However I would only go back to vinyl if forced to. You used the example of a walkman. By today's standard they suck. By the standard of the day it was top of the line. I got my iBrass 220 for the best performance with Tidal. That might seem strange to someone who would never use a DAP online. The music I want is not away available to me off line. I can also find new talent that I could not have access to otherwise. Most of the time I'm listening to music off the server but I want the option to use it online. I love the sound of my KANN but its lack of flexibility is troublesome. It will not allow the software to use it as a transporter. If they did not include a way to access my server and Tidal, the KANN would see far less use. In fact the KANN would only be used when traveling do to its massive storage. The ibass 220 does not use goggle but it has a different app store that gives me access to the drivers I need. As good as the KANN is, my system DAC and Amp is better. I've heard from people on Facebook that disagree with my using a phone or DAP as a transporter. They want me to use Pi and Roon. I did not disagree. The main reason I use a Android is it works and is simple. I see no need to add more hardware when I have something that works. If it become inconvenient I would build one they think is better. As far as the music goes, there is no difference. However, I am thinking of Roon as from my reading it is a very good music controller software. My system is next to my chair, close enough that I can use it with the three foot wire. I tested and got to work a remote using two androids. However it was not really needed and sometimes loss connection, required me to play with to make it work. There may be other ideas of what a "transporter" does. This was how it was explained me. I'll use another word if they taught me wrong.
ShaunLee
49
Sep 26, 2019
can be had for CAD$280 in canada, so not worth it in my opinion.
rumata13
563
Sep 26, 2019
X5 are selling for $200 on eBay, not sure on-board storage upgrade warrants 50% jump in price.
(Edited)
Whitedragem
185
Sep 26, 2019
rumata13I could not replicate your success with numbers anywhere near close to that. I did see a range of prices, sure, but most were not ‘buy it now’ (and if they were they were much higher prices than Drop, didn’t include postage and I would have to confirm by further reading each auctions listings’ as to whether they had all inclusions/what condition they were in/ age, and whether they had any level of warranty etc... I do understand there are three different versions; - where version two was stung a little in reviews (or generally praised in ‘eastern markets’) for having a ‘warmer’ tuned sound. When FiiO went back to the first X5s’ “tuning style” with this new version it garnered so much praise.. The version 3 of the X5 is from my readings, universally praised and is seen as the one to get. (Many people upgrading to the newer unit from their earlier offerings) Full disclosure:this part has Viper sound that allows tuning to the users preference when running PureAudio mode. Ye sure they were ‘buy it now’ listings? I noticed that as the final hour on bid pieces rolled around, in my local market, the second hand prices still went higher than Drop. Which can easily happen as some people have money enough to not want to save it by waiting for Drops customised parts to land. If second hand- I would have a few concerns: Battery! These are a ‘love or hate item’.. earlier firmwares than middle 2019 left the units feeling very unresponsive, to the point that custom firmwares with overclocked processors and much Android tweaking is ‘a thing’. (The process requires a few reboots and installing of various modules and should present no reason for not working with Drops’ X5 ‘S’ edition. Though it isn’t a task to undertake if you are in a hurry... ) The nature of many users getting frustrated with them, when first released until mid 2019, combined with their penchant to drain battery when in ‘sleep mode’ in only half a week, means that many units have probably done a reasonable stint in a drawer or box with their battery depleted. (Electronics like having their batteries in storage hovering between 50-80%) Empty batteries, left so for a prolonged time, will likely have a compromised runtime and offer less hours of enjoyment, and definately a shorter product life until servicing might be required. Not attempting fear based sales tactics here, and I do believe that the parts SHOULD run/work for many many years. Accessories! I would be hesitant to risk missing the inclusions due with the FiiO X5 as they use different (digital) COAX cables for sound output. Think I recall reading in an audio thread somewhere a person being caught out with no digital sound for using their earlier X5 models digital cable; (might have been on FiiOs excellent forum pages, with much discussion about this accessory, and the cable design needed to make digital sound pass purely) State of second hand unit could be anywhere- I found one in a hock shop that was midway through an OS update. Ran so wonky that I thought this can’t be right- tried the old tech support creed of ‘have you tried turning it off, and back on again’, and sure enough - it had to finish updating android.. the staff and last owner(s) had only been rebooting the device. The unit had been returned to the shop several times due to how hard it was to use/slow and janky it performed - something that a little servicing fixed, sure, but it had certainly been left in a compromised state (with a dead battery no less), with a price fairly equal to Drops. (No brainer really) (All of a sudden the extra storage included with Drops’ listing is just a bonus) Some people do not wish to scour ebay listings wanting to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I have been stung with bricks being posted instead of cutting edge video cards, -Ebay warning me not to post money, my bank not cancelling the transaction (even with five requests from me to do so, getting to the point where the branch manager would intercept me upon arrival), and a long drawn out bank process to get a refund (which I didn’t win!!? -and ‘yes’ I switched banks shortly thereafter)..
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Definately want the two included sleeves, as you might just be able to co-ordinate parts. I like the red stitched cover (seen here with some Momentums)
Whitedragem
185
Sep 26, 2019
rumata13Its also ‘in real world usage’ more than a doubling of the memory, as the Operating System has some overheads, and takes up some of the space. Usable space is generally mid to high twenty gigabytes type figures, so having 64Gb is in effect having a lot more than ‘double’ the included storage. Of course, in perspective, $30 of add on cards would take that to well north of half a terabyte. (;Two MicroSD bays means you can buy two of the best bang for buck storage cards)
RayxRay
0
Aug 28, 2019
How do you download songs into the player? For now I’m using my iPhone, but the sound isn’t that great. I’m using Sennheiser Momentum’s and V Moda cans, so I know it’s not the headphones that are bad.
Whitedragem
185
Sep 17, 2019
RayxRayThis device is SOOO easy to get music (or files) onto and load data from. When connecting it to a device, an android screen pops up asking if you wish to connect. When we click yes, the green android robot turns orange (or maybe it is the other way around), so.. a GIANT ONSCREEN indicator to confirm that you should be connected. Once ‘connected’; the drives turn up on the computing device you have hooked it up to. Some examples: On the Mac Mini (OS X) the three drives (included storage, slot 1 micro SD, slot 2 micro SD) show up as ‘ejectable’ volumes. On a Windows PC, the browser shows the extra drives being connected.... etc I recommend renaming the SD cards. The way I have configured these parts is to make the internal storage referred to as ‘X5’, the first (micro)SD card ‘X5ii’, and the second (micro)SD card as ‘X5iii’. This really helps me to know which volume I am dealing with. Heres some cool info: The chip that controls the first SD bay and the internal storage also has other functions, and effectively limits the throughput on these two locations. At cost, FIIO support another SD card slot, a feature which many companies do NOT include as it requires ANOTHER controller. This controller, being dedicated, allows for faster throughput. If I had a volume I wanted to frequently copy to/from I would definately put it in the MicroSD2 card slot. I find that BOTH controller chips can function at the same time and allow their maximum throughputs, so copying to the internal or slot one seems to max out at 5-7 megabytes per second, and slot two does nearly 20 megabytes per second. I copy simulateously to internal/slot one AND slot two and hold full speed on both! (Handy to know when you are keen to load this device up with LOTs of music/eg when first setting it up). This device has some VERY PRACTICAL usage for infield technicians- eg having a couple of partitions for booting from (eg a Windows install disc and a linux bootable drive) I find having massive storage available with me, always (who wouldn’t carry their beaut ‘lil music player everywhere?), is a very handy tool. You don’t need the worlds fastest MicroSD cards, as the controller will no doubt limit the input/output speed. So buy the largest cards, not the fastest cards. (Their extra speed will net no benefit on this device) Just know that the included file system seems to max out around 8500 songs, and ‘playlists’ may be needed to have easy access to ALL MUSIC. I find 384Gb (128+256) of WAVs and LOSSLESS is enough space to hit that 8500 song capacity. Just remember to rescan the folders if you mix it up a bit. Copying to and from these things is SOOOO easy. I have only had one instance of difficulty with a Windows laptop, which sorted itself out after a reboot. The device was fine, as, for testing I just hooked it up to the home theatre kit that was onsite; music was happily playing from it as if it were a connected thumb drive with media....
CEE_TEE
3481
Sep 26, 2019
WhitedragemWow- now this is providing help to the community...thank you so much for sharing this info and your practical process!!
rumata13
563
Aug 24, 2019
You can get X5 player for about $200, I bought one few months ago for $180, brand new. Upgrade from 32 to 64GB is not worth $100, just get memory card, they are cheap.
A community member
Aug 25, 2019
rumata13Where can you get a gen 3 X5 for $200.00?
Frogmeat
563
Aug 24, 2019
Enjoy lighting-fast performance..... lol, sure. I have the X5 III, fast it is not.
Zenya
2
Aug 26, 2019
FrogmeatJkubuha's custom kernel fixed the horrific lag of the X5III for me.
Frogmeat
563
Aug 26, 2019
ZenyaToo much tech/geek there for me to try, lol.
bossusa
34
Aug 24, 2019
Can you load tidal with Android 5.1?
(Edited)
Frogmeat
563
Aug 25, 2019
bossusaTidal is available on the X5 III right in the FiiO store on the player, so should be on this also.
(Edited)
DivCaste
0
Aug 23, 2019
I'm still not clear on how to do the math... can someone tell me whether this will do a respectable job driving a set of 6XX?
DivCaste
0
Aug 23, 2019
That's what I gathered, and why I picked one up. (Got it on eBay unlocked, and haven't had any complaints beyond the battery life.) If you don't mind my asking (and have a minute), do you know of a good source of information on resistance / power / signal sensitivity so that I can answer this question for myself in the future? I've read several one-off forum posts, but it has never quite clicked for me. I've got an engineering / math background, so you'd think this wouldn't feel so complicated...
Brosefstalin42
260
Aug 23, 2019
DivCasteThe issue is the implementation of amp circuitry (more common with tube power amps, but some solid state amps as well) since some amps peak their power at 80 or 120 ohm output rather than higher power at low ohms, lower power at higher ohms. It's not totally linear anyways, but it's not terribly far off either, so take something like 100 to 200 off the 32 ohm power and then divide by 10 and then just divide the 32 ohm power by 10. Your results should be fairly close to the power output if it follows the expected drop of power when ohms increase. Dividing by 9.375 would be the pure linear, so that would be the absolute max possible, but you tend to lose some power due to the extra resistance anyways. Been a long time since physics and other science classes for me.
micahjrose
126
Aug 23, 2019
It's a mediocre sounding player. Unless you just have to have Android and all that storage and features, you will do way better getting a different FiiO or going for a HiBy R3.
micahjrose
126
Aug 24, 2019
Also, for a little bit more you can get a far better sounding FiiO in the M11. Heck, M9 is about $300. This drop isn't a deal, it's the company turning a profit on some excess parts they have laying around.
(Edited)
rapoon
44
Aug 24, 2019
micahjroseAdditionally, the software on the X5 is dogsh*t. No reason to get it for $300 when the R3 is $200, sounds significantly better, and has a better interface.
(Edited)
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In the current context a "transporter" is a device that feeds the music from another source to your music system. I have a server with a lot of music. I can used a phone or DAP via WiFI and the USB C port to feed the data from the server using wireless and into my DAC which feeds it to the AMP which feeds it to my headphones. Ideally it will give me pure data without changing a thing. Being it is zero and ones, it should be possible. The Phone or DAP should not effect the music at all. It is only to transport the music from one place to another. My hope is that the music is transported to my ears unmodified. We all know that this is unrealistic. I can tell the difference between a good DAC or Amp and a bad one. I have no idea if others can do that. Often it is a matter of tolerance of the distortion. Back in the 90's I was happy to have a 16mb mp3 player. It let me listen to my music in places I could not hear it before. It was small and held more than a CD, making it far better than a portable CD player. Today I would never use such a devise, even if my ears are nowhere as good now than then. Ten years ago I was very happy with my HD 600. Today I only listen with my HD 800s. The HD600 is still used with gaming. If something happened that we could not have high end headphones, then the HD600 would be king. However, those of us who listened to a HD800s will know they are not getting the best sound. Some people believe the best headphones are Beats, cans I would not pay 10 bucks for. They have marketed distortion and people are happy with it. In the HIFI world we are after pure music or music exactly the way the artist wanted it to sound. Some have taken it to the extreme, such as going back to vinyl. I was happy to leave vinyl as I hated changing music every half hour. Is vinyl better sounding? Of course it is, in a perfect setup. The average setup will have pops an clicks I find intolerable today. However I would only go back to vinyl if forced to. You used the example of a walkman. By today's standard they suck. By the standard of the day it was top of the line. I got my iBrass 220 for the best performance with Tidal. That might seem strange to someone who would never use a DAP online. The music I want is not away available to me off line. I can also find new talent that I could not have access to otherwise. Most of the time I'm listening to music off the server but I want the option to use it online. I love the sound of my KANN but its lack of flexibility is troublesome. It will not allow the software to use it as a transporter. If they did not include a way to access my server and Tidal, the KANN would see far less use. In fact the KANN would only be used when traveling do to its massive storage. The ibass 220 does not use goggle but it has a different app store that gives me access to the drivers I need. As good as the KANN is, my system DAC and Amp is better. I've heard from people on Facebook that disagree with my using a phone or DAP as a transporter. They want me to use Pi and Roon. I did not disagree. The main reason I use a Android is it works and is simple. I see no need to add more hardware when I have something that works. If it become inconvenient I would build one they think is better. As far as the music goes, there is no difference. However, I am thinking of Roon as from my reading it is a very good music controller software. My system is next to my chair, close enough that I can use it with the three foot wire. I tested and got to work a remote using two androids. However it was not really needed and sometimes loss connection, required me to play with to make it work. There may be other ideas of what a "transporter" does. This was how it was explained me. I'll use another word if they taught me wrong.
I might be missinterpreting the word “transporter’. In the last two posts I am hearing it used to refer to the software that plays back the music files, and/or the hardware device that plays back the music files. Whilst I do agree that excellent playback software and, more so, drivers and ‘control’ software (eg the OS) can affect the sound quality output of given hardware... software cannot vastly fix bad clock/jitter and other aspects that are set at a hardware level. Sometimes, such as with APt X, which was initially sold to us as ‘hardware requirement’, was opened up as ‘software’, and has retroactivley been added to much playback equipment.. generally when we buy playback equipment we need to get equipment that gets it right in the first instance, as the hardware sound output can be tailored by software only so much, and certain aspects (eg jitter) cannot be reclaimed/made ‘better’. When I talk ‘transport’ I refer to the hardware aspect of the sound. Personally I have NO DESIRE for upgradable software/ apps, I came from an era of walkmans etc, where the physical controls might of, at best, been supplemented by some ‘remote controls’ on the headphone cable.. but generally what you bought out of the box initially/from the store, was what you had to use with that equipment for the life of the product. My nineties walkman and minidisc player still play and give excellent sound (both were flagship parts with attention being given to sound quality, although the walkman is pretty special, as on a single AA battery it can run for many hours...). When I buy a DAP; so long as it is functional and gives basic features like shuffle and ability to build a playlist ‘on device’, I am generally happy with THAT basic functionality. The transport aspect is simply how great it is at actually passing the digital bits, and might extend at a software level to ‘gapless playback’ support. I would never go ‘online’ with my DAP, so wireless might be useful to hook up some bluetooth speakers, or remote interface (eg my phone as a remote to control my DAP being digitally fed into the home HiFi), but I wouldn’t purchase a small personal audio device that HAS TO BE a ‘swiss army knife’. If so I am happy with the basic model with the blade and bottle opener, but can forgo the mini saw and tooth pick. If I need a saw, a dedicated saw would be better every time. That is my attitude to dedicated devices. (less is more). I understand many put up great arguments for why a specific player is ‘no good’ because it cannot run spotify etc.. I understand we all have different uses for our equipment, and , as the market trends in different directions it might be nice to have our middle tier (reasonable price point) audio equipment be ‘upgradeable’ to future trends and to continue to deliver excellent sound whatever we might choose to do with it... To be fair I wasn’t upset when my walkman couldn’t play minidiscs. Whilst both my units were made by Sony, the minidisc wasn’t even a gleam in their fathers eye when my walkman was designed or bought by me... The walkman still does its’ dedicated function perfectly. Thats what I seek in a consumer purchase. Specific tasks done well. I am yet to see a phone do any aspect of what a mid tier DAP actually does. By the spec sheet they both playback audio files etc, but I really wish consumers understood that the quality of the output far exceeds being ‘compatible’ with music playback. The difference of a well set up audio system is stunning. Well setup requires a certain system synergy, and an output sound that makes one ‘tap their foot’ (often somewhat involuntary).. music as it used to be sold (back in STEREO days) was truly HiFi. Majority of the ‘Hi Res’ products I see for sale are so far from being musical. They generally read very well at the spec sheet level.. Which takes me back to being a teenager and selling off my 100W surround receiver, which did video switching, had an equaliser, tonnes of inputs, ridiculous power output and lots of soundfields (echo) and cool gizmos and lights and all sorts of fruit. I traded it in for the most entry level 30watt stereo amp (with a source direct button). Nearly a decade later I then learned that real hifi components ofter read worse than my little 30Watt musical amp, at the spec sheet level,.. and that some aspects of musicality do not translate well to ‘numbers’ on a piece of paper. Very easy to manipulate those numbers to seem like one product can match another.. but oh so far from the truth... as most of what really matters is never discussed (or else the marketing companies would have nothing to sell). In TV terms it would be like buying QLED over OLED (Q is after O in the alphabet), and never even knowing about MOTION RESOLUTION. Lots of times an inferior looking spec sheet is the vastly better performing product. Sadly too many consumers want to educate why their more impressive sounding spec sheet parts are superior. PowerPC CPUS want to have a word with you!! (a 300mhz RISC chip(CPU) often outperformed a 700Mhz CISC chip,.. but hey lets not let facts get in the way of understanding that bigger numbers HAVE TO BE BETTER, right?) Anyhow, as a transport, if hardware can resolve all of the information correctly, with accurate positioning AND subtle nuances, developing real ‘texture’ in the sound etc.. then I say well done. I will buy a piece of equipment that performs the function (in the case of Digital Audio Players; playing back audio) it is intended for, and does so well. I like one box units that do one thing well. I will add more boxes if that is required. If one part breaks, one part goes to the repair shop and I continue using the remainder of the playback chain.. (home hifi).. if a DAP, I might use a DAC external, and an amp external.. but, that DAP better get lifting the sound files ‘right’. Most people like their phones as a player,.. they say how easy it is too use, how easy it is to get on the net, how easy it is to get the latest software, etc.. it ISNT so easy to (enjoy) listening too(if you’ve ever heard nice playback equipment), but hey - it gets ‘so much other stuff’ right. Many people= many usage scenarios. All products offer usage scenario for someone. I don’t write off phones as audio players; they are the most used audio players presently sold. Most used cameras as well... (I used to work retail in a dedicated camera/photography store).. lets just say I COULD offer ‘two cents’ with regards to “phone cameras”, but- they work for many and are always on hand. I don’t use one; and I appreciate my old camera which doesn’t hook up to the net and allow software downloads and bluetooth five etc. To each their own. I don’t measure cameras by megapixel either. My go to camera is a four megapixel (fovean) from the 2000’s. Or a Fuji X-Trans. Both give vastly more resolution than their ‘spec sheets’ would suggest. Both give beaut colour and contrast, arguably the two most important things to ‘get right’. Neither camera systems sound saleable vs spec sheet warrior competition.. DAPs are harder to qualify, mostly because majority of the planet haven’t heard really high fidelity sound. eg a system that renders compressed music files unlistenable. My young child can detect compressed music in a heartbeat. To us, it is ‘without soul’ and mostly unlistenable. I did have to source them a ‘true’ hifi system, as the playback music being hard to resolve (eg Nine Inch Nails) requires top tier equipment. Not wishing to invest crazy dollars into the parts as modern equipment would require, I simply spent a few hundred on the second hand market. Speakers from the seventies etc... That ‘toe tapping’ set of equipment resolves well and makes musical stuff that I haven’t heard sound ‘so good’ in a long time. Even though the same music files have been played through flagship (>$6500) receivers with attention given to every part of the system (cables/power isolation etc). You can only polish a turd so much.. DAPs have a hard time selling into a world where everybody can dismiss them, not based on sound quality, but rather on ‘future market standards adoption or some other ridiculous goal post’. Sound advice often isn’t. (Follow me and I will lead you BACK from the long lost garden path to nowhere...)
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