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YanboWu
8550
Collaborations
May 13, 2016
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Night_Man
16
May 13, 2016
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YanboWuMy question is why was a product option, in this case the Alphabet layout, that has never been thoroughly tested before available for purchase? From what I have read, I feel those revisions should have been made to ensure production of fully functioning product before the drop was even announced. Am I wrong? Even if revisions are needed, I think that can be worked in parallel with component procurement, and it's hard to believe that revisions can take 4 and a half months. That is just ridiculous in my opinion. Do you have any plans set in place to mitigate this incompetency? If not, I will never buy another custom keyboard from Massdrop.
swirle13
90
May 15, 2016
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YanboWuThank you so much for some concrete info. Seriously. I'm sorry for being an asshole but got damn. The delays and the entire timeline has taken so long already, then to be told about a delay then not why was really frustrating. Thank you so much for the information.
swirle13
90
May 15, 2016
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Night_ManYeah, honestly, I feel like there ought to be some actual, concrete reimbursement for this. Even if it's something small like a spare zealio so I can pop into my CNC'd key switch keychain or a random but interesting key like tai hao does in every key set. Because yeah, this'll be my last purchase on anything like this on MD. Except for MD only keysets that I really want, a la Jelly Keys SA Starry Night: http://imgur.com/a/4zegm
YanboWu
8550
Collaborations
May 15, 2016
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Night_ManFair question, with universal PCBs, adding additional layouts can add another layer of complexity to the entire project. In the case of the IC60, we did prototype a few samples before the drop started and they did work.
However, during production we found some small nagging issues that make the user experience less than ideal. Being the perfectionists that they are, Input Club asked we add a few more changes to address the issues we've found.
Also, not to nitpick but the drop ended on 3/1/16 - it's been 2 and a half months.
However, during production we found some small nagging issues that make the user experience less than ideal. Being the perfectionists that they are, Input Club asked we add a few more changes to address the issues we've found.
Also, not to nitpick but the drop ended on 3/1/16 - it's been 2 and a half months.
Night_Man
16
May 15, 2016
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YanboWuOkay, thanks for the reply, I guess I would rather a working product at the end of the day, so I appreciate your diligence on committing to that.
Ayyno
297
May 17, 2016
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YanboWuAs one of the people waiting for her Alphabet layout, thanks for not delivering a keyboard to me that you know is fucked up.
Like seriously. Instead of just delivering something you know is broken or has issues you're doing the right thing for your customers and making sure we get a working product the way we expect to get it. You also probably won't get thanked by many people for it, so here you go from me: Thank you.
No, it isn't an ideal situation but you know that. You've admitted it. You offered refunds. You're keeping us in the loop. You're doing what you should be and that's awesome.
I'll sit here with my soldering iron and SIP sockets and patiently wait to build my keyboard when it gets here.
Like seriously. Instead of just delivering something you know is broken or has issues you're doing the right thing for your customers and making sure we get a working product the way we expect to get it. You also probably won't get thanked by many people for it, so here you go from me: Thank you.
No, it isn't an ideal situation but you know that. You've admitted it. You offered refunds. You're keeping us in the loop. You're doing what you should be and that's awesome.
I'll sit here with my soldering iron and SIP sockets and patiently wait to build my keyboard when it gets here.
fadeNightshadow
8
May 18, 2016
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AyynoThis is one of the most beautiful comments i've seen on a mistake as some one more exited to build the thing then to use it i can't agree more.
Stay awesome mass drop and ic i'm eagerly awaiting the a product of the quality i want over a product delivered in a rush.
Stay awesome mass drop and ic i'm eagerly awaiting the a product of the quality i want over a product delivered in a rush.
the_manaconda
6
May 19, 2016
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YanboWuAlright, fair enough, but this really doesn't answer the broader question: why do so many drops end up being delayed like this? In one instance, say in this case where a layout was thought to be functioning and wasn't, it might be understandable, but you're really not addressing the underlying issue. This is a pattern that people are seeing with massdrop and keyboards, where several different drops for different products are delayed.
Ayyno
297
May 19, 2016
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the_manaconda@the_manaconda - So here's the answer: Manufacturing things can be complex.
I QA software currently and hardware is somewhat similar. It's hard to tell you've got an issue until you're running bigger test batches and assembling things to make sure what you're going to ship is good to go.
With a company like Massdrop they also tend to have a few points of contact with the product. Your switches come from one place, your plates and cases come from another. Electronic components may come from a third. You have to rely on these companies to get product to your assembly point reliably and in a timely manner. If you've ever coordinated multiple companies, this is incredibly difficult. One of them having a setback or equipment failure means you get a delay on the entire product. These are delays you just can't plan for.
Then there's shipping delays. Bad weather, shitty shipping services used by your component suppliers, missing parts of shipments, or other issues can come up. It's all time nibbled away from the manufacturing time and shipping time needed, all of which is subject to delays and issues of their own.
You can plan some padding in there which will give the illusion of a product shipping "early" if nothing goes wrong, but you don't want to plan too much or people may complain even if the product ships "early".
Now if you're wondering why Massdrop doesn't just say this, they may be unable to. Contractually they may not be able to discuss delays and where they come from on some drops due to agreements with vendors. Or, more likely, they may simply not want to discuss these delays so vendors don't get pissed off at the blame being put on them. We all want to keep getting our awesome deals on stuff.
There's a lot of issues that can happen!
I QA software currently and hardware is somewhat similar. It's hard to tell you've got an issue until you're running bigger test batches and assembling things to make sure what you're going to ship is good to go.
With a company like Massdrop they also tend to have a few points of contact with the product. Your switches come from one place, your plates and cases come from another. Electronic components may come from a third. You have to rely on these companies to get product to your assembly point reliably and in a timely manner. If you've ever coordinated multiple companies, this is incredibly difficult. One of them having a setback or equipment failure means you get a delay on the entire product. These are delays you just can't plan for.
Then there's shipping delays. Bad weather, shitty shipping services used by your component suppliers, missing parts of shipments, or other issues can come up. It's all time nibbled away from the manufacturing time and shipping time needed, all of which is subject to delays and issues of their own.
You can plan some padding in there which will give the illusion of a product shipping "early" if nothing goes wrong, but you don't want to plan too much or people may complain even if the product ships "early".
Now if you're wondering why Massdrop doesn't just say this, they may be unable to. Contractually they may not be able to discuss delays and where they come from on some drops due to agreements with vendors. Or, more likely, they may simply not want to discuss these delays so vendors don't get pissed off at the blame being put on them. We all want to keep getting our awesome deals on stuff.
There's a lot of issues that can happen!
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In the case of the IC60 kit, we have all the components staged and ready to go on the line in a moment's notice. However, there were a couple complications with the Alphabet layout and revisions were needed on the plates to make sure everyone receives a fully working product.
The new samples are already underway, once that's confirmed to work flawlessly, everything will be produced and shipped.
For all intents and purposes, everything is ready to go - this delay shouldn't be much longer and we should have more concrete news for everyone by the next update.