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Showing 1 of 21 conversations about:
cossan512
26
Aug 16, 2016
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Look people... Small diaphragm condenser mics are not for vocals (unless you sing only after inhaling a bunch of helium, haha). They are for instuments! To pick up very high frequency transients (fast detailed high frequency sounds) Furthermore, quality condenser mics (large or small) are not cheap. And they don't have gold mesh! (well the AKG C414 XLII (an LDC) does, and no one seems to like it because it's too bright, anyway...) Get a quality dynamic mic for vocals if you are on a tight budget. Sorry Massdrop for not shilling for this drop. (Mr. Audiopro has done an excellent job for you.) Feel free to ban me if you like.
6EQUJ5
459
Aug 17, 2016
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cossan512I agree, condensers are for instruments. You can't go wrong with Shure SM57 and SM58 models for vocals.
Anyone considering buying this microphone should really do some homework the Shure microphones are not much more and are legendary status for a reason, skip to 7:46 if you want to hear the SM57:
Anyone considering buying this microphone should really do some homework the Shure microphones are not much more and are legendary status for a reason, skip to 7:46 if you want to hear the SM57:
cossan512
26
Aug 17, 2016
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6EQUJ5Small Diaphragm Condensers are (generally used) for instruments. Large Diaphragm Condensers are the best in the world for vocals.
And yes the *Shure* SM57 or 58, not Sennheiser... (smacking my forehead)
And yes the *Shure* SM57 or 58, not Sennheiser... (smacking my forehead)
6EQUJ5
459
Aug 17, 2016
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cossan512Yes, they are. Most of the homework is already done by Sweetwater. While Superlux headphones are okay in the audiophile world I wouldn't bother with this microphone when you can get a Shure SM57 or SM58 for $10 more and know exactly what you're going to get. By okay I mean they're not that great when compared to something that cost only a little more.
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/studio-microphone-buying-guide/
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/studio-microphone-buying-guide/
cossan512
26
Aug 17, 2016
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6EQUJ5Good info. And don't forget to pick up a copy of ProTools, a Digidesign HD 192, and a Neve 1073 to go with your SM57/58 to be sure you have a nice signal chain to get the most out of it! ;)
cossan512
26
Aug 17, 2016
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6EQUJ5After listening to the youtube vid (with Shure SRH 1540's , through an Apogee Groove, the Neumann's, in this video, sound the worst of the bunch! And the SM57 sounds the best!!! Are you Shure?!? (:P) you did not touch the EQ while recording this?) That SM57 sounds very very nice... The vocalist sounds amazing. (Though I find it hard to believe that track is dry. I hear a lift in the higher range and more verb on the SM57 track.) She really belts it out on that track, and it sounds really good.
Audiopro
167
Aug 17, 2016
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cossan512Thanks for your kind words cossan512, but I think you've missed the point here. Any mic can be used for any purpose if you understand what that particular mic's limitations are. Voices are like instruments, a mic that works with one voice will not work with another. Nothing is written in stone and to say SDCs are not for voice is highly arbitrary, not to mention, inaccurate. In this case it is purely your opinion, which, of course, I respect. However most all SDC mics, including this Superlux model, have a fairly wide frequency response down to 20Hz and sometimes below.., so no lack of low frequencies here. I have miked whole orchestras with a simple stereo pair of SDCs and picked up the bass section and bass drum with real authority and depth.., all frequencies accounted for. I don't agree with every drop that Massdrop presents and am therefore not a spokesman for them. But I have had experience with this particular product and will continue to support its surprising performance, made more remarkable by its price and build quality. In conclusion, I really don't know how they do it, but they do, and you can't go too far wrong at $89.99. BTW, SM57 & 58s, used for vocals all the time, are small diaphragm mics.., albeit dynamic.
Audiopro
167
Aug 18, 2016
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6EQUJ5Basing your decision on price is sophomoric.., There's a whole different technology involved here. Dynamic and condenser mics live in different places where response to audio sources are concerned. Condensers are faster responding, with greater detail. Dynamics are slower due to a higher mass diaphragm. Both have their uses and neither is bad.
6EQUJ5
459
Aug 18, 2016
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AudioproA user asked if this was good for vocals, this is a condenser mic designed primarily for instruments. My decision is not based only on price but on track record, performance, and usage. For $10 more you can't go wrong for a Shure SM57 or SM58 for vocals. You don't need to explain anything about dynamic, condensers, and ribbon mics. There aren't that many different technologies, all the different types of mics are already clearly covered by the Sweetwater buying guide I linked. No need to explain to me how microphone technology works, I've already done my homework many years ago.
I never said that condenser microphones were bad, I was simply stating that if you wanted this microphone for vocals you're better off paying $10 more and getting an SM57 or SM58. For the complete novice who wants to join this drop on MD thinking it's a good buy for vocals, they will be misled by MD's marketing. For vocals go with dynamic and for instruments this microphone is fine.
I never said that condenser microphones were bad, I was simply stating that if you wanted this microphone for vocals you're better off paying $10 more and getting an SM57 or SM58. For the complete novice who wants to join this drop on MD thinking it's a good buy for vocals, they will be misled by MD's marketing. For vocals go with dynamic and for instruments this microphone is fine.
Audiopro
167
Aug 18, 2016
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6EQUJ5SDC were NOT designed designed for instruments only, They are general purpose mics used for what ever you decide they will work with, and Sweetwater wants to sell you something. My homework was done in the 40 years I've been in this business working with major artists, using almost any mic you can name. So I don't question your "homework" I just warn you that some of the advice freely given by the likes of big retailers can be biased. Many of the sales people you will talk to have never seen the inside of a studio or concert hall for that matter. You have to ask why they are salesmen and not full blown producers or engineers? Yes they are tech savvy and can answer, by the book, questions you may have concerning the gear. The difference is, I've been in the trenches using this stuff and have made a few mistakes as well, and have little time to sell ideas that will be blown to hell on my next project. One of the rules I learned from other respected professionals is to "never assume anything" because you're setting yourself up to be surprised later. So why are we wasting time arguing any of this.., buy one, or two of these, they're certainly cheap enough. The other rule I learned was "you can never have too many mics. :-)
ZaphodX
25
Aug 19, 2016
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6EQUJ5This shootout has too many variables to tell you anything. They are all different performances--the biggest variable of all, if you have any experience recording vocalists. Also, the distances/mic placement are all different. Signal chain also affects the qualities of mics in different ways. All of these things together GREATLY affect sound.
Audiopro is the only person on here so far that actually sounds like he knows what he is talking about, and this is coming from another audio pro with 20 years experience. There are no such rules as others on here have stated. Any mic can sound great or not so great, greatly depending on the room, the source, the material, the performance, genre, mic positioning, chain etc. For most studio vocals, people don't use a 57 or 58. However, those mics have been used very successfully by some people with certain voices with certain types of singing in certain genres. Same could be said of small condensers. They are not normally used for main vocals in a studio setting, but people have used them successfully for certain types of vocals in certain styles with certain singers in certain genres. And, although LDCs are the most common in a pro studio for vocals, that doesn't mean they are always the best, and the difference from mic to mic can be great. If you want to see how nutty people are about this and how many opinions and options there are, go to gearslutz and make yourself crazy. Bottom line is that how well a mic works depends on those things I mentioned: the source, the material, the genre, the mix, the positioning, the chain, etc.
cossan512
26
Aug 21, 2016
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AudioproAudiopro, I think you have missed the point. It's not about bass at all. When recording , if it's not a bass instrument, you should be high passing that source (removing the bass from all sources that are not specifically bass instruments, so that bass from other instruments does not muddy up the bass from the bass specific instruments. That is what the high pass switch on the mic is for, and why it is there. That way the bass instruments will sound clean and tight, not muddy.) The problem is not about picking up bass with this microphone. The problem is that SDC's, because they are so good at picking up details at higher frequencies, can sound harsh and ear piercing when used to mic vocals, female vocals in particular. For this reason LDC's are generally used for vocals because they tend to be less harsh sounding. It is not about bass, it's about harsh high frequencies. But I am sure you already knew that, because it's mixing 101 (freshman level as opposed to sophomore), and you are an audio professional!
Audiopro
167
Aug 21, 2016
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cossan512Hi cossan512. My post has to do with band width not limited to "bass," and to pose a question; Why would manufacturers design SDC mics, as most are, with wide band width if it were intended only for limited use? A good SDC is good at reproducing detail at any frequency, if for no other reason, than the lower mass of its diaphragm. Some SDCs (capsule specific) exhibit a slight, gradual rise in the higher frequencies (6K - 10K) to facilitate distant miking where that distance acts as a natural roll off. Those frequencies are usually above the range of the human voice. This can be easily rolled off during tracking or during the mix and still take advantage of the SDC's superior detail characteristic. Premature band pass EQ, during recording, will severely limit detailed adjustments to be made, later, in the mixing process. Whether a mic, SDC or LDC, seems harsh (distortion) is usually due to its particular design, not the size of the capsule. But that's advanced physics, not available in 101, but I'm sure you know this. Yes I am a successful audio professional.., but I'm a little puzzled as to what you do?
cossan512
26
Aug 21, 2016
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AudioproTo clarify Audiopro, I am talking about putting an SDC in front of a singer, as the pop filter on this mic would suggest is a good idea. For a person about to spend money on a mic, in a price range where obviously money matters to people, I thought it would be helpful to point out to the community there are better known high quality affordable choices out there for vocals, rather than an unknown quality $90 SDC with nice shiny gold mesh to attract people who don't know much about microphones.
Premature band-pass when recording? Hahah... funny stuff. So instead of hi-passing all your non-bass sources with a simple flip of a switch on the mic, you would rather waste your valuable "professional" time doing those "detailed" adjustments to a bunch of tracks while mixing?
Let me ask you a question: Why do you think that high pass switch is there on the mic? It's there so that audio professionals can flip a switch and save some valuable time by not having to do that to a ton of tracks in post production, because the pros need to get things done quickly. High-passing is not a subtle or detailed adjustment, you just chop off the low frequencies so that you don't have a bunch of other low frequency garbage clouding up the mix that does not pertain to the source on the track. Not to mention the possibility of forgetting which tracks you have hi-passed (among say maybe 30 or so) and missing one, then wasting time going back to sort out which track has the low end garbage (refrigerator or air conditioner hum or bleed from other instruments) thats messing up the low end of your mix. The switch helps.
The things you say might sound good enough to bamboozle folks who don't know a lot about mics or how they are best used. But it doesn't fool me. And I am NOT an audio professional. There are not many people making living in the recording industry today because it DIED a few years back (save for kiddie-pop), so you must be some kind of audio god or something if you survived. Also technology today has enabled musicians to record on their own at home with near pro level equipment (if not professional recording spaces), without time constraints imposed by paying for very expensive studio time. I find it very hard to believe any client pays you thousands of dollars to record them with $90 mics they could easily afford themselves on Massdrop. If I were to walk into a real studio to pay someone for recording time, you better have a bunch of Nuemanns and AKGs and Telefunkins and badass mic pres and other equipment I could never afford, or you can forget it.
And if I was a professional audio engineer, I would not come to Massdrop and call myself "Audiopro." Instead, if I were on this site at all, (not likely if I was a busy audio engineer with access to a professional studio with pro level equipment) but if I was hanging out here for some reason, I would just quietly try to help people out, without needing to try to establish myself as an authority, or make a pretense of my knowledge with a narcissistic user name like Audiopro.
Do you use the same name on any real audio forums? Because using a name like that on a serious audio board where real professionals hang out would be inviting them to eat you for breakfast, which they would do in very short order. But somehow I don't think so. That's more like the kind of user name intended to con people who are probably just buying their very first mic, into trusting your opinion, for the purpose of selling $90 microphones with fancy gold mesh. Perhaps that is what you mean by calling yourself an audio pro.
Premature band-pass when recording? Hahah... funny stuff. So instead of hi-passing all your non-bass sources with a simple flip of a switch on the mic, you would rather waste your valuable "professional" time doing those "detailed" adjustments to a bunch of tracks while mixing?
Let me ask you a question: Why do you think that high pass switch is there on the mic? It's there so that audio professionals can flip a switch and save some valuable time by not having to do that to a ton of tracks in post production, because the pros need to get things done quickly. High-passing is not a subtle or detailed adjustment, you just chop off the low frequencies so that you don't have a bunch of other low frequency garbage clouding up the mix that does not pertain to the source on the track. Not to mention the possibility of forgetting which tracks you have hi-passed (among say maybe 30 or so) and missing one, then wasting time going back to sort out which track has the low end garbage (refrigerator or air conditioner hum or bleed from other instruments) thats messing up the low end of your mix. The switch helps.
The things you say might sound good enough to bamboozle folks who don't know a lot about mics or how they are best used. But it doesn't fool me. And I am NOT an audio professional. There are not many people making living in the recording industry today because it DIED a few years back (save for kiddie-pop), so you must be some kind of audio god or something if you survived. Also technology today has enabled musicians to record on their own at home with near pro level equipment (if not professional recording spaces), without time constraints imposed by paying for very expensive studio time. I find it very hard to believe any client pays you thousands of dollars to record them with $90 mics they could easily afford themselves on Massdrop. If I were to walk into a real studio to pay someone for recording time, you better have a bunch of Nuemanns and AKGs and Telefunkins and badass mic pres and other equipment I could never afford, or you can forget it.
And if I was a professional audio engineer, I would not come to Massdrop and call myself "Audiopro." Instead, if I were on this site at all, (not likely if I was a busy audio engineer with access to a professional studio with pro level equipment) but if I was hanging out here for some reason, I would just quietly try to help people out, without needing to try to establish myself as an authority, or make a pretense of my knowledge with a narcissistic user name like Audiopro.
Do you use the same name on any real audio forums? Because using a name like that on a serious audio board where real professionals hang out would be inviting them to eat you for breakfast, which they would do in very short order. But somehow I don't think so. That's more like the kind of user name intended to con people who are probably just buying their very first mic, into trusting your opinion, for the purpose of selling $90 microphones with fancy gold mesh. Perhaps that is what you mean by calling yourself an audio pro.
Audiopro
167
Aug 23, 2016
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cossan512WOW! cossan512 Sooo many words, to say so little.., and I was almost beginning to like you... :-)
Audiopro
167
Aug 23, 2016
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EphruzSince I often work with students on limited budgets I often get to try out products before recommending them. I've tried both and can safely say the this Superlux is far better than the Samson CO1U..., it's a real sleeper.
cossan512
26
Aug 23, 2016
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AudioproHahaha. You are a professional audio teacher? That's great. Do you teach your students how it's bad to "prematurely band pass" a signal using a switch on the mic? That's really sad. Students (might) be the only group of people who can not see right through your BS. Sadly, you would not be the only clown taking money from students and filling their heads with garbage. But I seriously doubt even that is true. There is PLENTY of freely available information online, and dozens of youtube channels (made by REAL pros) for anyone who is interested in the subject to learn for free.
Great story Audiopro.
Great story Audiopro.
Audiopro
167
Aug 24, 2016
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cossan512The real sadness is that some individuals can only communicate through insults and ignorance. Good luck my friend.., this conversation has been terminated.
Lord_Gloubiboulga
0
Apr 13, 2017
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6EQUJ5SM58 is solid as a rock and quite cheap, that's why it became a referance, but lot of sound engeneer says it's not that good (at all)
Motorrad
2900
Apr 21, 2017
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Boeing77Wwhy? there really was not much to learn from the bloviating 'experts' here. 57s are fine mics, but so are the s241/u3. you should have both and figure it out for yourself. seriously, you'll be glad you did.
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