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Drop + Grace Design Standard DAC Balanced
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Drop + Grace Design Standard DAC Balanced
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Product Description
Following the success of the Massdrop x Grace Design Standard DAC, we’re excited to release the much-requested balanced version. It’s the least-expensive small standalone balanced DAC on the market, designed to complement high-end balanced amplifiers like the Drop + THX AAA™ 789, the Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, and more Read More
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keyboard_arrow_downrajapruk
212
Oct 8, 2018
Like this comment if you REALLY REALLY would like to see an "Massdrop x Grace Design Standard DAC Balanced PLUS", with the following specs:
- A little bit lower distortion (i.e probably use a top-shelf AKM chip). SOTA distortion would be nice!
- A bit higher SNR. SOTA SNR would be nice!
- No pops at startup, shutdown, sample-rate-changes, etc, at all
- Price: < $350
- Matching design to the Massdrop THX 798 headphone amp.
- USB and AES3 / SPDIF input
Basically, the perfect dac to match the Massdrop THX 789 headphone amp.
Basically, the perfect dac to match the Massdrop THX 789 headphone amp.
rslatara
287
Nov 8, 2020
rajaprukThey should make it the same size as airist throw a 4493/4495/4497 etc. or a set of dual burr brown chips which often get overlooked.
Add RCA, optical and I'd probably throw my money at it.
Michael_Grace
432
Grace Design
Sep 13, 2018
Hi All, Following is a bit of info on the new SDAC balanced. There is some description of the new features and circuitry, design intent, and preliminary measurement data.
The SDAC Balanced DAC is based on the digital to analog converter design in the SDAC. See my post on the SDAC which outlines the design philosophy and technical details and is all relevant to the SDAC Balanced: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-grace-design-standard-dac/talk/1806625
(Please note my opinion on the role of the actual DAC chip in overall converter sound as I think there is much hype and judgment about which chip a product might use and how it will sound because of that choice.) Here I will discuss the addition of the SPDIF input, balanced analog outputs, and USB Audio Class 2 operation.
Here I will discuss the addition of the SPDIF input, balanced analog outputs, and USB Audio Class 2 operation.
SPDIF Unlike asynchronous USB audio, a SPDIF (or toslink or AES3) signal contains an embedded clock that must be recovered by a receiver circuit. The quality of that recovered clock can vary widely depending on many factors. The design of the PLL (phase locked loop) used to synchronize the internal clocks for the d-a converter is critical to achieving high fidelity sound reproduction. The SPDIF receiver in the SDAC balanced is the AK4117 which is a solid performing hardware receiver circuit. The intrinsic jitter of the AK4117 PLL is not bad but since it is designed to acquire lock rapidly the PLL loop filter will not allow it to reject jitter in the audio band. For this reason we use a two stage clocking system with a second PLL that re-clocks the recovered clock from the AKM receiver. The second stage PLL is an extremely quiet digitally synthesized clock that has a loop bandwidth of 1Hz. This means that any incoming jitter on the SPDIF line that is above 1Hz will be attenuated dramatically to where it will not be able to produce any audible artifacts in the audio. To measure the effects of jitter on a DAC we send a relatively high frequency tone through the DAC and look for jitter modulated side bands in an FFT plot. I will upload a pictures of this that shows the output of the SDAC balanced reproducing an 11.025kHz tone with and without 1UI (177nS) of sinusoidal jitter. The SPDIF input is transformer-coupled for complete ground isolation. Note that the SPDIF interface maximum sample rate is 192kHz BALANCED LINE OUTPUTS The AK4452 DAC uses switched capacitor output filters (following the delta sigma modulator) which provide an inherently balanced signal at the output pins. From here, the balanced signal is sent to a fully differential output filter/driver amplifier. This amplifier has differential inputs and balanced outputs. Specifically this circuit is a fully differential multiple feedback 2nd order low pass filter with a Bessel response and a corner frequency of 100kHz. The fact that it is fully differential guarantees that the positive and negative phases leave the box with almost perfect amplitude matching (around +/-0.002dB). The Bessel response is chosen for the best phase response. The balanced outputs have a 300 Ohm output impedance (150 Ohms per leg) and produce exactly 2x the output voltage of the unbalance outputs at 4.34Vrms in to a 100k Ohm load. The unbalanced line outputs on the 3.5mm stereo jack operate simultaneously to the balanced outputs and put out 2.17Vrms in to a 100k Ohm load. All inputs and outputs feature robust ESD (electrostatic discharge) production. A note on balanced vs. unbalanced signals: First of all, there is no inherent difference in fidelity between a balanced and an unbalanced signal. Under ideal conditions both signals can carry identical information. It is the factors of the real world where there we can differentiate (pardon the term!) between the two. As many probably already know, balanced line signal transmission with a differential receiver can reject common mode noise. The amount of rejection is known as the common mode rejection ratio (or CMRR). An unbalanced interface is prone to noise caused by ground potential differences between a DAC and a downstream device. This can be caused, for instance, by a setup where a computer is connected to a DAC via USB, the DAC is then connected to an amplifier, and that amplifier is connected to earth ground. If the computer is also connected to earth ground then you have a ground "loop" and current will flow through the audio cable ground between the DAC and amp causing noise. A balanced interface can reject that noise but the design of the balanced driver and receiver circuitry can cause degradation to the signal in the form of distortion and amplifier noise. So you see there is no black and white way to evaluate whether balanced is better or worse in a given setup. Ideally the DAC would have a galvanically isolated (ground isolated) USB interface which would break the "loop". Galvanically isolated USB is expensive and unfortunately not in the budget for the SDAC. So in this case, if there is going to be a potential for a ground loop, a well designed balanced interface can really help. The CMRR of the receiving device will determine how well it will reject noise. USB Audio Class II For those with high resolution files the SDAC Balanced will play PCM sample rates up to 384kHz and DSD 256 This is driver-less operation on Mac OSX and current versions of Windows 10. For older versions of Windows USB I mode is required and then sample rates will be limited to 96kHz. Here are some performance plots and measurements from our pilot build of SDAC Balanced DACs. These figures are actual measurements. Guaranteed performance specifications will be more conservative.
Frequency response @ 96kHz Fs: DC-20kHz +/-0.03dB Frequency response @ 129kHz Fs: DC-48kHz +/-0.4dB All distortion measurements are with a 22-22kHz bandwidth THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 44.1kHz 20Hz 0.0016 100Hz 0.0011 1KHz 0.0007 10KHz 0.0008
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 48kHz 20Hz 0.0018 100Hz 0.0012 1KHz 0.0008 10KHz 0.0007
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 88.2kHz 20Hz 0.0016 100Hz 0.0011 1KHz 0.0007 10KHz 0.0006
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 96kHz 20Hz 0.0018 100Hz 0.0012 1KHz 0.0008
10KHz 0.0006 THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 176.4kHz 20Hz 0.0016 100Hz 0.0011 1KHz 0.0007 10KHz 0.0006
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 192kHz 20Hz 0.0018 100Hz 0.0012 1KHz 0.0008 10KHz 0.0006 Dynamic Range (A-Weighted) 115.4dB Dynamic Range (Un-Weighted) 112.3dB Crosstalk @ 1kHz, -10dBFS -120dB Crosstalk @ 10kHz, -10dBFS -112dB IMD CCIF, -6.03 dBFS, 19/20kHz, 24/96k 0.00015% IMD SMPTE -2 dBFS, 24/96k 0.0012% IMD SMPTE -6 dBFS, 24/96k 0.0008% Linearity @ -90dBFS +/-0.025dB Maximum output unbalanced 2.17V Maximum output balanced 4.34V
SPDIF Unlike asynchronous USB audio, a SPDIF (or toslink or AES3) signal contains an embedded clock that must be recovered by a receiver circuit. The quality of that recovered clock can vary widely depending on many factors. The design of the PLL (phase locked loop) used to synchronize the internal clocks for the d-a converter is critical to achieving high fidelity sound reproduction. The SPDIF receiver in the SDAC balanced is the AK4117 which is a solid performing hardware receiver circuit. The intrinsic jitter of the AK4117 PLL is not bad but since it is designed to acquire lock rapidly the PLL loop filter will not allow it to reject jitter in the audio band. For this reason we use a two stage clocking system with a second PLL that re-clocks the recovered clock from the AKM receiver. The second stage PLL is an extremely quiet digitally synthesized clock that has a loop bandwidth of 1Hz. This means that any incoming jitter on the SPDIF line that is above 1Hz will be attenuated dramatically to where it will not be able to produce any audible artifacts in the audio. To measure the effects of jitter on a DAC we send a relatively high frequency tone through the DAC and look for jitter modulated side bands in an FFT plot. I will upload a pictures of this that shows the output of the SDAC balanced reproducing an 11.025kHz tone with and without 1UI (177nS) of sinusoidal jitter. The SPDIF input is transformer-coupled for complete ground isolation. Note that the SPDIF interface maximum sample rate is 192kHz BALANCED LINE OUTPUTS The AK4452 DAC uses switched capacitor output filters (following the delta sigma modulator) which provide an inherently balanced signal at the output pins. From here, the balanced signal is sent to a fully differential output filter/driver amplifier. This amplifier has differential inputs and balanced outputs. Specifically this circuit is a fully differential multiple feedback 2nd order low pass filter with a Bessel response and a corner frequency of 100kHz. The fact that it is fully differential guarantees that the positive and negative phases leave the box with almost perfect amplitude matching (around +/-0.002dB). The Bessel response is chosen for the best phase response. The balanced outputs have a 300 Ohm output impedance (150 Ohms per leg) and produce exactly 2x the output voltage of the unbalance outputs at 4.34Vrms in to a 100k Ohm load. The unbalanced line outputs on the 3.5mm stereo jack operate simultaneously to the balanced outputs and put out 2.17Vrms in to a 100k Ohm load. All inputs and outputs feature robust ESD (electrostatic discharge) production. A note on balanced vs. unbalanced signals: First of all, there is no inherent difference in fidelity between a balanced and an unbalanced signal. Under ideal conditions both signals can carry identical information. It is the factors of the real world where there we can differentiate (pardon the term!) between the two. As many probably already know, balanced line signal transmission with a differential receiver can reject common mode noise. The amount of rejection is known as the common mode rejection ratio (or CMRR). An unbalanced interface is prone to noise caused by ground potential differences between a DAC and a downstream device. This can be caused, for instance, by a setup where a computer is connected to a DAC via USB, the DAC is then connected to an amplifier, and that amplifier is connected to earth ground. If the computer is also connected to earth ground then you have a ground "loop" and current will flow through the audio cable ground between the DAC and amp causing noise. A balanced interface can reject that noise but the design of the balanced driver and receiver circuitry can cause degradation to the signal in the form of distortion and amplifier noise. So you see there is no black and white way to evaluate whether balanced is better or worse in a given setup. Ideally the DAC would have a galvanically isolated (ground isolated) USB interface which would break the "loop". Galvanically isolated USB is expensive and unfortunately not in the budget for the SDAC. So in this case, if there is going to be a potential for a ground loop, a well designed balanced interface can really help. The CMRR of the receiving device will determine how well it will reject noise. USB Audio Class II For those with high resolution files the SDAC Balanced will play PCM sample rates up to 384kHz and DSD 256 This is driver-less operation on Mac OSX and current versions of Windows 10. For older versions of Windows USB I mode is required and then sample rates will be limited to 96kHz. Here are some performance plots and measurements from our pilot build of SDAC Balanced DACs. These figures are actual measurements. Guaranteed performance specifications will be more conservative.
Frequency response @ 96kHz Fs: DC-20kHz +/-0.03dB Frequency response @ 129kHz Fs: DC-48kHz +/-0.4dB All distortion measurements are with a 22-22kHz bandwidth THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 44.1kHz 20Hz 0.0016 100Hz 0.0011 1KHz 0.0007 10KHz 0.0008
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 48kHz 20Hz 0.0018 100Hz 0.0012 1KHz 0.0008 10KHz 0.0007
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 88.2kHz 20Hz 0.0016 100Hz 0.0011 1KHz 0.0007 10KHz 0.0006
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 96kHz 20Hz 0.0018 100Hz 0.0012 1KHz 0.0008
10KHz 0.0006 THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 176.4kHz 20Hz 0.0016 100Hz 0.0011 1KHz 0.0007 10KHz 0.0006
THD+N% @ -0.15dBFS 192kHz 20Hz 0.0018 100Hz 0.0012 1KHz 0.0008 10KHz 0.0006 Dynamic Range (A-Weighted) 115.4dB Dynamic Range (Un-Weighted) 112.3dB Crosstalk @ 1kHz, -10dBFS -120dB Crosstalk @ 10kHz, -10dBFS -112dB IMD CCIF, -6.03 dBFS, 19/20kHz, 24/96k 0.00015% IMD SMPTE -2 dBFS, 24/96k 0.0012% IMD SMPTE -6 dBFS, 24/96k 0.0008% Linearity @ -90dBFS +/-0.025dB Maximum output unbalanced 2.17V Maximum output balanced 4.34V
rslatara
287
Sep 18, 2019
Thanks for the update, everything works as it should with 32/384. I actually had a USB interface for a Hifiberry with a similar thing but it also works just fine.
It's my first grace product and it has really improved the LCX especially SE thanks to the additional gain over RCA. For a small DAC it outputs a excellent sound even on a Jotunheim, airy and a neutral/semi-warm tone with a little sparkle in regards to imaging and the treble.
(Edited)
rslatara
287
Nov 8, 2020
Michael_GraceEver consider making an artist size dac with the 4497 etc. or something like a dual burr brown pcm1795 which often get overlooked? Then throw extra connectors.
If you made something like that it would be a license to print money, I'm not sure if drop are making the airist again but there is definitely a void in a matching dac for 789.
CEE_TEE
3480
Aug 15, 2018
Last year, Massdrop worked with Grace Design to set the new standard in entry-level objectivist DACs. Measurements and a price that beat OtherDACs…
With the success of the single-ended version and the release of our balanced amplifiers (Massdrop x THX AAA 789 & Massdrop x Cavalli Liquid Carbon X), the community has been asking for a balanced DAC.
Working with Michael Grace, Eben Grace, and Jamie Krapohl at Grace Design is always a real pleasure. From discussing potential features and learning technical considerations behind design choices to mocking up and fitting the I/O on the rear panel, specifying and developing the DAC with them is a special experience.
This new balanced version matches our balanced amplifier aesthetic, has a footprint compatible with our larger amplifiers as well as the Objective 2 amplifier, and is accessible- resetting the bar for performance and functionality for a standalone DAC at this price point.
What excites me about this one: -People are going to love the USB connector :) -Small enough to be very compatible with many different system set-ups -How it looks on top of our THX or LCX amps -All the stuff crammed into that back panel…making the dual 3-pin XLR fit! -Coax SPDIF option (great for CD players or USB-to-SPDIF converters) -USB 2.0 to support more filetypes, very high resolution -Great for output into powered speakers while using digital volume control on your computer
I just keep checking out the back:
What excites me about this one: -People are going to love the USB connector :) -Small enough to be very compatible with many different system set-ups -How it looks on top of our THX or LCX amps -All the stuff crammed into that back panel…making the dual 3-pin XLR fit! -Coax SPDIF option (great for CD players or USB-to-SPDIF converters) -USB 2.0 to support more filetypes, very high resolution -Great for output into powered speakers while using digital volume control on your computer
I just keep checking out the back:
cspirou
220
Sep 12, 2021
Have you tried USB-1 with any other devices? Also have you tried other UAC-1 DACs with the PS5?
not too familiar with the PS5 but maybe there's something in the menu that need to be configured
FlacAttack
14
Sep 12, 2021
cspirouBoth USB modes work fine with PC and I have a UAC-1 DAC/amp unit that works with PS5. There are no options for any of that, it’s just plug and play.
jaydunndiddit
3262
Jul 19, 2019
Got my SDAC Balanced from the first drop and it looks wonderful with the full Drop stack.
Lisasonictower
666
Jul 29, 2019
Yes my promitheus TVC is the same as the schiit splitter you linked with volume control.
Thats my my plan to use as little as possible and if I use a a USB to SPDIF I don’t think I have enough inputs of SPDIF but that was part of my thinking when I suggested the topping D10.
I’m slowly figuring out what I need to do and it is changing every 5 minutes lol.
Thanl you for bpuncing ideas around in this new to me realm of digital connecting.
the SDAC and R2R sound exactly the same to me currently using both SE except for the SDAC is slightly quieter with the 0.3-0.4v less which makes my life slightly easier now. When I figure it out and I will I shall let you know my findings. I may be a while though as it depends on how things sound when the THX arrives but I’m next in line.
Lisasonictower
666
Jul 29, 2019
Also yes both DAC’s work perfect when not in the USB hub. My initial thoughts were something to do with the USB hub causing an issue because one needs to be powered and the other not and so I figured I could output from the CCK into the non powered hub and into the R2R from that and then take the USB extension lead on the powered hub from a port on the non powered hub and feed a powered USB from that to the SDAC but that doesn’t work for them both to be as smooth as butter.
No no idea why the optical splitter works from the CD player and not the Bluetooth, I assumed optical was optical and if optical signal strength is a thing I would have thought with it being a powered splitter it would just work all 3 outputs rather than just the one which is always the SDAC whether the R2R is the only one connected or not, I think a optical splitter cable may be the answer.
CEE_TEE
3480
Sep 15, 2018
Greetings everyone,
We have some excellent news! Based on community interest and feedback, we’re extending this drop by another 2 weeks. But not to worry, this will not extend the shipping date. We’re still aiming to deliver these products to you well on time.
We’ve also been listening closely to the discussions and we’ve identified an opportunity to make improvements to the I/O ports. Several members expressed desire in having additional options for digital input, namely optical input (TOSLINK). The Grace Design team has found a way to revise the PCB design to accomodate a single 3.5mm port that can handle both optical input and S/PDIF coaxial input using a 3.5mm-to-coaxial adapter. This is great because it won’t increase the manufacturing lead time nor will it affect the shipping date.
FROM: COAX SPDIF only
KimbaWLion
144
Keyboard Club Member
Aug 17, 2018
Hum... With just a little more effort and making the price a bit more you COULD have had a multi input DAC with volume control JUST like the Lake People do... It would fit in the exact same box as the other afore mentioned units and be a perfect match, giving us EVERYTHING we could want at a very decent price... Then again, what do I know? Though at that price I may finally retire my over 5 year old Schitt Bifrost upgraded to an Uber edition...
KimbaWLion
144
Keyboard Club Member
Sep 8, 2019
lugerI had to buy something at the end of the day and ended up choosing the the smsl d1 for the $850, I still wondering if I did the right thing. The D2 is coming really soon for a lot more money... The missing play mode doesn't bother me that much...
MusicLover
566
Aug 23, 2019
This is the response I just received from The Support team.
Hello,
Drop Community Support team.
I hope this email finds you well. I apologize for the delay getting your product shipped out.
I understand this was supposed to have shipped already. I just flagged this to our logistics team and they will be looking into it shortly.
Because of how most runs are structured, we depend on our vendors/suppliers to send out products on the agreed upon time. While in the majority of cases this works out, delays on a given run or shipment can happen for a number of reasons.
When we do receive word back from the vendor in regards to the run, I will reach back out to you.
If you need anything else at the moment, please don’t hesitate to let me know.
Best Regards,
(Edited)
JohnnyComeLately
115
Sep 6, 2019
MusicLoverHope it's everything you guys hoped it would be. I had to bail out on mine due to the wait. Just needed something ASAP, went with a Geshelli ENOG2 Pro. Massdrop gave me a good customer support experience so it's all good.
(Edited)
VanHai
82
Aug 20, 2019
Does anybody receive shipment notification of the DAC ?. It supposes to be sent out today.
MusicLover
566
Aug 28, 2019
Thank you. I really do appreciate any and all advice you and others have given. I’ve not made up my mind yet but I am definitely overthinking it.
Lisasonictower
666
Aug 28, 2019
MusicLoverI listen to a lot of postmodern jukebox and all that type of music sounded phenomenal on the Airist saxophone especially. I can’t really break down into “audiophile” nonsense speak. All I can say is, do I enjoy this music or not in a way which the equipment gets out of the way in that I’m not trying to constantly pick fault because I’m hearing something wrong. I believe it is the R2R architecture which accomplished this for me. I personally would have another Airist but not at the price it is after having mine fail, if Drop offer it at 50% off I’d snap their hand off, now I’m saving for the Soekris 1541 and currently settled with the SDAC-B.
rslatara
287
Mar 29, 2020
@Michael_Grace have an idea? make a SDAC with same form factor as the 789 but put something like a 4490, 4497 etc along with balanced and RCA out. I'd easily pay more for that which would essentially be a beefed up SDAC.
RM28
41
Aug 18, 2018
The wait for a fully balanced yet affordable DAC to nicely pair with the fine fully balanced amps that have been offered on Massdrop ... continues for most. The number joining this drop would have been far higher had it been dual mono, with optical in and also RCA out, along with including an external power supply. Without even a production pilot ready there is likely still sufficient time to incorporate them into a redesign, likely adding only a couple of months to the intended May delivery and a bit more to the cost. It would meet the needs of the community better, sell in far higher volumes and be a win for all. Follow the steps that have made the HD6XX, AKG and Fostex drops so successful rather than those that have fallen short of even the minimum needed to recoup your investment. The vision, knowledge, skill and ability are there.
Wuthoqquan
80
Aug 29, 2018
Absolutely! The form factor chosen by Massdrop cannot please at all the LCX (or THX AAA 789) owners.
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