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Massdrop x Grace Design m9XX DAC/Amp
01 / 08
Massdrop x Grace Design m9XX DAC/Amp
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Product Description
Well reviewed on Head-Fi, HiFi Insider, and beyond, the Massdrop x Grace Design m9XX was inspired by the world-class m920 DAC/amp—offering the same performance level for audiophile applications, now at a far more accessible price. Working with Michael and Eben from Grace Design, we stripped the m920 of its lesser-used pro audio hardware and improved upon the audiophile features where possible, all while retaining the high-res DAC implementation and super-clean solid-state amplification Read More
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fjrabon
456
Aug 21, 2016
Yeah, and again, I don't actually mind that he didn't like it as much. There can be reasonable disagreement on how it sounds. It's just annoying that nearly half of his review was based around various misconceptions he has about amps, mW specs and the m9XX.
FappingNinja
7
Jan 4, 2017
I just received my HD6XX, and I'm currently looking for a DAC/Amp.
Will Grace Design m9xx be a good recommendation for HD6XX? Or is there any cheaper alternative? (I'm still new at this)
Will Grace Design m9xx be a good recommendation for HD6XX? Or is there any cheaper alternative? (I'm still new at this)
JacobBushman
7
Jan 24, 2017
Funny thing is we all go to music shops and see the tiny differences it makes when you spend the kind of money you have and it's a joke to us. You have either got ears that are better than everyone, or try really hard to justify what you paid for. We can go try it at a store and completely disagree with you. You speak as if everything that comes out of your mouth is a fact. You just don't get how many people don't want to deal with the know it all. Call yourself an "actual audiophile" and its funny, if your gonna talk like that way you better have 10k+ into that set up of yours.
SenorPlatano
389
Feb 28, 2017
Why doesn't anybody just buy this: http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim
Way more powerful. If you ask me there's no point of spending more than like $100 on a DAC. They all sound the same. If you listen to a $2300 DAC and can tell the difference it's either your mind lying to you, or they're playing 192kbps or less music when it's plugged into the computer and FLAC when you plug in the DAC. I'm not talking about amplifiers though, if you have a 600 ohm headphone then buy a $400 amp.
Way more powerful. If you ask me there's no point of spending more than like $100 on a DAC. They all sound the same. If you listen to a $2300 DAC and can tell the difference it's either your mind lying to you, or they're playing 192kbps or less music when it's plugged into the computer and FLAC when you plug in the DAC. I'm not talking about amplifiers though, if you have a 600 ohm headphone then buy a $400 amp.
doktor
54
May 22, 2017
Hi,
where do you think should I invest my 500bucks in then? I wanted to order the jotunheim, but not too sure now....
Answer would be much appreciated
Jimmybuckets
91
May 24, 2017
Not to piss in anyone soup, but doesn't Grace make this unit as a production unit now, but with SPDIF also for the same money?
Uzuzu
1431
Jun 2, 2017
Oh i got you. Still don't see why anyone would use it or the toslink over the USB......
Jimmybuckets
91
Jun 8, 2017
UzuzuIf you were using a CD transport or sending the signal to another processor.
Sparqx
50
Apr 13, 2017
Thank you for explaining how the black case option came to be...would never have known that.
RiflemanFirst
685
Apr 14, 2017
SparqxHere's a little background about this from Jason Stoddard at Schiit:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/690198/black-schiit-or-our-suppliers-mistake-is-your-um-benefit
http://www.head-fi.org/t/690198/black-schiit-or-our-suppliers-mistake-is-your-um-benefit
BaronVonYolo
29
Jan 28, 2016
im on the edge off buying this.... i have the extra money to just try it. With so many saying this is "much better then the O2 /odac " is there a blindtest or mayby a review comparing them out there?
And woud this really improve soundstage at all compared to the O2 ? I have plenty off headphones right now. Not one off them i think sound bad on my O2.
(x2´s, ath-r70x, hd650, HE400i, TH-X00, and my favorit HP right now HD800s´sssses the spacious sound just amazez me and is just freakin epic in games! woud this improve the soundstage even further ?
Fjrabon u seem pretty active around here mayby u can put me in the right direction ;).
And woud this really improve soundstage at all compared to the O2 ? I have plenty off headphones right now. Not one off them i think sound bad on my O2.
(x2´s, ath-r70x, hd650, HE400i, TH-X00, and my favorit HP right now HD800s´sssses the spacious sound just amazez me and is just freakin epic in games! woud this improve the soundstage even further ?
Fjrabon u seem pretty active around here mayby u can put me in the right direction ;).
richieboy38
Feb 8, 2016
NONO, is this the version with the revised 2015 converter 24 or 32 bits and it revolutionist nothing if you were allready in studio/dj/hifi gear and have a masterdegree micro-electronics. Don't forget that the majority of what is called state of the art dac and adc's dsp are 10-15 year old models..... no they've integrated the clocks in the ic itself, which i think is a bad thing. And the ones with a 9volt recharchable block accu are insane.... A lot of companies also thought batteries are better..... the non-recharcable ones are not that bad, though have a lot of noise and sparks allready, but then it will be lipo or other ones, but none of them are good. Even though they offcourse built in every
pad phone laptop.... and with crappy chargers, which i don't understand they deliver with it, since smps is finnaly use-able. And then usb....not clean... While there are really good cargers ont market, but everybody seems to want a crappy thin ,small phone, tablet etc.... and pays 700euro for a phone , which still need an external amp, since those 3 mm thinner looks better, only the amp for good sound ,stronger wifi doesn't fit.... _mini/micro usb... and you get a nice downgraded mcu/memory speed, since it otherwise gets too hot.
BaronVonYolo
29
Feb 8, 2016
richieboy38what the...... what are u talking about ? and what does it have to do with fjabon´s comment ?
egrace
108
Grace Design
Oct 31, 2015
Hi Folks, Eben from Grace here. I just wanted to chime in on the analog input question. Not including an analog input was certainly not an oversight - all possible features were put on the table and discussed at length. Ultimately the decision to forgo analog input was based primarily on the notion that the vast majority of m9XX users would be playing back via USB, with a smaller subset possibly using toslink from dedicated playback devices like the FiiO etc...
One thing to understand about Grace Design is that we aim really high with our designs, which is why till now our headphone amp / DACs have all been in the $2k range. The real work for us with the m9XX was to land this in this price range without having to sell our soul and make something we didn't really believe in. This is to say, we had to make some hard decisions, mostly about features such as analog in, that would end up making the m9XX more expensive. Its not as simple as just tacking on an analog input somewhere on the rear panel. There would be many more components, a different kind of volume control, greater power budget constraints, and on an on, to the point that this drop would probably be $699 or higher.
With total bias, but also deep understanding of how we design and build our equipment, the m9XX affords playback quality which approaches our $2k amp / DACs. The big job was pairing down the feature set to what is essential, while maintaining the performance on which we have built our reputation.
Hope this helps!
One thing to understand about Grace Design is that we aim really high with our designs, which is why till now our headphone amp / DACs have all been in the $2k range. The real work for us with the m9XX was to land this in this price range without having to sell our soul and make something we didn't really believe in. This is to say, we had to make some hard decisions, mostly about features such as analog in, that would end up making the m9XX more expensive. Its not as simple as just tacking on an analog input somewhere on the rear panel. There would be many more components, a different kind of volume control, greater power budget constraints, and on an on, to the point that this drop would probably be $699 or higher.
With total bias, but also deep understanding of how we design and build our equipment, the m9XX affords playback quality which approaches our $2k amp / DACs. The big job was pairing down the feature set to what is essential, while maintaining the performance on which we have built our reputation.
Hope this helps!
DeathbyMusic
157
Nov 2, 2015
Possible. But can't deny that the Deckard looks pretty nice. Honestly, I'm outta ideas. Maybe the best course would be to buy yourself a stack since that's way more flexible. Maybe Schiit Asgard 2 and Bitfrost? Would only cost 150 more and has around twice the power of the m9xx at 600 ohms.
DeathbyMusic
157
Nov 2, 2015
Honestly, the reason why I'm looking at this is for the bitrate support, company reputation and the promise of great performance (m920 as benchmark). I already stretched my budget from the O2/ODAC drop so this is as far as I am willing to go. Since you're not into the connectivity options on the m9xx, and don't really find the bitrate support to be of much use, and find the amplifier lacking, I don't think this dac/amp is for you. If you don't actually need a DAC, then maybe it would be better to spend 400 on a nice dedicated amplifier? If you aren't hampered by budget (you didn't say that you're dismissing the Deckard based on price, but rather, design) then there are definitely many more options available to you.
gepardcv
3
Oct 23, 2015
1. The manual link is broken. "Error 403 forbidden" on Google Drive. Maybe that would answer my questions...
2. What is the output voltage of the RCA line out?
3. Is there a way to dim or turn off the display?
4. Does the volume knob attenuate only the headphone outs, or all outputs at the same time?
5. Is the volume control digital (in-DAC chip or other) or analog?
6. Jude's post mentions that plugging in a headphone mutes the RCA output. Is there a way to disable that feature (to, e.g., run an output to another amplifier)?
2. What is the output voltage of the RCA line out?
3. Is there a way to dim or turn off the display?
4. Does the volume knob attenuate only the headphone outs, or all outputs at the same time?
5. Is the volume control digital (in-DAC chip or other) or analog?
6. Jude's post mentions that plugging in a headphone mutes the RCA output. Is there a way to disable that feature (to, e.g., run an output to another amplifier)?
Compassionator
207
Oct 24, 2015
Sorry to be blunt, but is this a jazzed up version of the JDS Labs Element? Visually, they look basically the same with the large volume knob on top. And/or has the m9xx been developed from scratch (circuit design, etc.) rather than modified from an existing product?
There was some talk on the ESS thread where the headphones were identified to be an existing product that could be or was "modified" brought to a different specification/voicing, but essentially was not "their" product. Not saying that this is the case, but I am a little skeptical given the price vs. the M905.
There was some talk on the ESS thread where the headphones were identified to be an existing product that could be or was "modified" brought to a different specification/voicing, but essentially was not "their" product. Not saying that this is the case, but I am a little skeptical given the price vs. the M905.
Michael_Grace
432
Grace Design
Oct 25, 2015
CompassionatorHi Compassionator,
I had not heard of the JDS labs product until reading your post. I don't really know anything about it's design so I cant comment on that as a comparison to the m9XX.
The m9XX contains a mixture of new technology and adaptations of already designed/refined circuit elements from our other products. The USB streaming controller software running in the XMOS is very similar what is in the m920. Our XMOS firmware engineer Caleb Roberts has 5 years of experience with optimizing the XMOS code. The code running in the m9XX has not been "re-invented" but has been tailored to the requirements of the product.
The headphone amplifier is very similar to what is in our flagship studio monitor controller m905. But with a novel configuration of the output amplifier topology which allows for extremely low output impedance.
The DAC section is all new. It is based on the AK4490 from the latest generation of AKM 32bit dacs. AKM is, in my opinion, leading the pack of mixed signal semiconductor manufactures with many new high performance DACs and ADCs in their lineup.
The analog power supply design is based on our push-pull DC-DC converter developed for our m101 microphone preamplifier. Professional microphone preamaplifiers are extremely low noise, high gain circuits that require very quiet power supplies. Jamie Kraphol is our engineer in charge of the magnetics design for this power supply. He spent months optimizing this design for high power output, dual voltage operation (Buss Power vs High Power mode), and sample rate synchronous operation . So while the circuit topology looks similar to the m101/m103 it is a different animal in terms of performance parameters.
Obviously there are cost constraints when designing a $500 product vs. a $3500 product (m905). However, the careful selection of features and higher volume manufacturing allows us to bring exceptional performance to the m9XX.
The m9XX contains a mixture of new technology and adaptations of already designed/refined circuit elements from our other products. The USB streaming controller software running in the XMOS is very similar what is in the m920. Our XMOS firmware engineer Caleb Roberts has 5 years of experience with optimizing the XMOS code. The code running in the m9XX has not been "re-invented" but has been tailored to the requirements of the product.
The headphone amplifier is very similar to what is in our flagship studio monitor controller m905. But with a novel configuration of the output amplifier topology which allows for extremely low output impedance.
The DAC section is all new. It is based on the AK4490 from the latest generation of AKM 32bit dacs. AKM is, in my opinion, leading the pack of mixed signal semiconductor manufactures with many new high performance DACs and ADCs in their lineup.
The analog power supply design is based on our push-pull DC-DC converter developed for our m101 microphone preamplifier. Professional microphone preamaplifiers are extremely low noise, high gain circuits that require very quiet power supplies. Jamie Kraphol is our engineer in charge of the magnetics design for this power supply. He spent months optimizing this design for high power output, dual voltage operation (Buss Power vs High Power mode), and sample rate synchronous operation . So while the circuit topology looks similar to the m101/m103 it is a different animal in terms of performance parameters.
Obviously there are cost constraints when designing a $500 product vs. a $3500 product (m905). However, the careful selection of features and higher volume manufacturing allows us to bring exceptional performance to the m9XX.
Ormia
31
Nov 3, 2015
After reading some of Purrin's review (on Super Best Audio Friends) I'm starting to have second thoughts...
m8oman
192
Nov 6, 2015
Loving the composition of the harmonics. Should sound 'tube like' when driven hard.
DeathbyMusic
157
Nov 6, 2015
The drop will end in 19 hours. I will send you a separate email directly regarding the NAFTA certificate.
DeathbyMusic
157
Oct 28, 2015
Doesn't look like this drop will get past 200. I guess there are a lot of uncertainties regarding this one. Wonder why. 500 dollars isn't particularly much for a DAC/AMP and coming from a well-known manufacturer most would agree that it's not a high-risk investment. I do wish that this thing had independent amplifier function as well though.
Ormia
31
Oct 28, 2015
You're on the money with this comment.
And I'm glad to read all this helpful discussion.
dtw898
158
Oct 28, 2015
Don't discount the positive reviews just because you think they were paid to review. Most seasoned Hi-Fi shoppers know when a reviewer is bullsh*tting. That is why reviewers are citing name of the song in their review to give the reader a sense of reference. Often times, I found their reviews were very close to the mark when I already owned the item being reviewed.
If you can't tell the difference b/w a $99 and $2,000 amp/dacs, I encourage you to try a different headphone or CIEM. It is safe to say that the more high-end the headphone/CIEM is, the more you can tell the difference. But then, if you are satisfied with your existing headphone/CIEM (which couldn't distinguish b/w the two amp/dacs), then you are correct to not to waste money on the more expensive counterpart.
From my opinion, I found the reviewers of the m9xx to be frank and straight-forward and gave enough information that I could relate to. I'm convinced that it is a good amp/dac worthy of buying in my pursue to improving my listening experience.
If you can't tell the difference b/w a $99 and $2,000 amp/dacs, I encourage you to try a different headphone or CIEM. It is safe to say that the more high-end the headphone/CIEM is, the more you can tell the difference. But then, if you are satisfied with your existing headphone/CIEM (which couldn't distinguish b/w the two amp/dacs), then you are correct to not to waste money on the more expensive counterpart.
From my opinion, I found the reviewers of the m9xx to be frank and straight-forward and gave enough information that I could relate to. I'm convinced that it is a good amp/dac worthy of buying in my pursue to improving my listening experience.
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