We received many requests for a version of the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X (LCX) with the Grace Standard DAC (SDAC) inside.
Thank you! Turns out, this is an extremely versatile system. :)
The LCX+SDAC is all you need with your computer and headphones or in-ear-monitors (IEMs) to have a great musical experience.
And, this DAC/Amp combo can be used to test other gear (if you ever wish to):
-LCX+SDAC allows you to compare the internal DAC with an external DAC. The LCX can be fed from external sources (DACs, CD players, digital audio players).
-The LCX+SDAC can be used as a DAC into another amp. You may want to try a tube amp on top.
-Single-ended versus balanced operation…you can try your headphones and in-ear monitors on both outputs.
-The LCX+SDAC can accept single-ended or balanced DACs.
The LCX+SDAC is a very high-quality audiophile Swiss Army Knife for sound.
Topology - Quiet, Powerful
Alex Cavalli and I have had many conversations over the course of the past year about what makes the Liquid Carbon amplifier topology special.
The original purpose for the Liquid Carbon was to make a high-quality, low noise balanced IEM amp with a gain of 1x, with the additional features of having a gain of 3x and a single-ended output for convenience.
The LCX utilizes unity gain current feedback discrete operational amplifiers derived from the output buffers used in the highly-regarded Liquid Glass amplifier.
The Liquid Carbon’s balanced & bridged design rejects noise in the circuit, and can produce the clean power needed for both IEMs and headphones.
Grace Design Standard DAC (SDAC)
There are phase-splitters in the LCX that convert the SDAC signal into balanced.
I've done my own testing and can definitely tell a difference between the balanced and single-ended outputs with the SDAC.
Using Noble K10 IEMs with balanced cable (and adapter to 4-pin XLR), I can report that the Noble K10 balanced out of the LCX+SDAC is a great pairing...
CyanaEmorrachi@CEE_TEE Can we change an original LCX order into this offering? Oh, and is the internal SDAC connected to the amplifier in a fully balanced configuration? Thanks!
CEE_TEEthis is amazing amp and u will add sdac 24/96 to bad , is there achance to apply centrance dac HD for this amp coz its support 24/192 , DSD it will be amazing combo 👌🏻
catboyoblueim curious also especially if this will allow both use of its dac as well as use of a different one as it seems you stated it will. i would also be fine with the dac on its own if we can get a form matching size. but yes im curious as well. thanks
catboyoblueHi catboyblue,
Sorry, the standalone LCX drop was a while back without overlap to this drop and cannot be changed over.
However, the SDAC can be purchased separately and used with the LCX.
The internal SDAC and an external SDAC are both run through the LCX phase-splitters to be able to take advantage of the LCX balanced/bridged topology. I do hear the difference between outputs with the SDAC.
CEE_TEEThanks for the quick response! Does that mean any single ended signal would run through the phase splitters resulting in a different sound on the balanced out (Vs the SE out)? And for clarity, if that’s true For this version of the LCX, you’re also saying that’s true for the previously dropped stand-alone version?
CEE_TEEAny idea when the standalone SDAC is available again? I've only seen it drop once but I've seen several drops since with it integrated in other products (O2, Cavalli CTH, Cavalli LC).
CEE_TEEFor those of us that purchased the LCx months ago, are there any plans for creating a fully balanced dac in a matching chasis for stacking?
I'm sure there see a boatload of us crossing ite collective fingers. Heck, the original LCx discussion even has a post outlining possible pairings...
dasmanThat's exactly what I've been asking many times in the original LCX discussion... an external DAC built into a matching enclosure would be a very welcome add-on for those who invested in the LCX.
A reply from Massdrop has yet to come to surface...
catboyoblueHi catboyblue,
The SDAC signal goes through phase splitters at the single-ended input only.
This way, the SDAC benefits from the balanced operation through the amp.
There are no phase splitters at the output of the amp.
The balanced output stays balanced into balanced headphones (getting the benefits of balanced- more power/quieter noise, etc.).
So, the single-ended SDAC benefits from the balanced topology of the amp if you use balanced output.
The single-ended output is also there for convenience and flexibility, just as in the original Liquid Carbon.
Hope that helps!
GreatMagicianThe Grace DAC is very good as is the Centrance, however I would bet my newly arrived HD6xx that you can't tell one from the other in a blind test.
CEE_TEECan you let me know if this is the internal logic for the LCX DAC/AMP?
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I want to add a mixer into the equation. Main question I want to know is:
1) Can you use this as a PRE AMP for external speakers?
2) If you are outputting to headphone, will it still output to speaker?
3) Can you use both headphone jack at the same time or only one at a time?
Please let me know if there is any logic in my diagram that is incorrect.
FaceMcBashyHi FaceMcBashy,
The RCA output is only a "pass through" of the input that comes into the RCA input. This way you can use a DAC into the LCX and pass it through to a tube amp (for example). So, the volume control does not have an affect on the RCA pass through in the back.
You can output signal from the 3.5mm DAC output to either a mixer or to powered speakers but not to both at the same time.
Yes, you can listen to both headphone outputs at the same time, the single-ended output will be lower in power.
One way to use this amp as a powered pre-amp is to use in low (1x/unity gain) and then take a signal from a headphone jack output to a set of self-powered speakers. You would not have a separate volume control for both headphones and the speakers if using both headphone jacks simultaneously but that is how you could have most of this capability...
CEE_TEEThanks for answering my questions.
Lets say if Input 1 comes from SDAC, Input 2 comes from Balance Input, Input 3 comes from RCA Input. Can I use the Input switch to switch between outputting the DAC's signal to either the AMP or the mixer(always connected to the DAC in the back)? For example, if I use Input 1, then I want to get sound from the USB to my headphone. If I use Input 3 which read signal from RCA IN, then I want the DAC to still work and output to my Mixer that is connected to the 3.5mm out in the back. In other words, can the DAC and AMP also work completely independent of each other?
I want to make sure that the signal can travel through these path without having to unplug any wires:
1) DAC -> AMP -> HEADPHONE (Use Input 1)
2) DAC -> MIXER -> AMP -> HEADPHONE (Use Input 3)
3) DAC -> MIXER -> SPEAKER (Use Input 3)
4) MIXER -> AMP -> HEADPHONE (Use Input 3)
Note: The mixer has two output channel with independent volume control so it is not a limiting factor. The DAC and AMP I am referring to is the ones in this product.
Also, if I plug in a headphone into the AMP, will it still pass through the signals from the RCA IN signal to the RCA OUT?
I really need to understand the signal logic in order to decide if this can fit into my audio solution.
Thanks
CEE_TEETwo questions:
1. Can both headphone outs be used simultaneously? I'm looking for a sonic siphon my fiancee and I can squeeze through together.
2. Has anyone tried this amp with CF Andromedas? I expect that combination to hiss rather than sing, but if it did sing, this would be an automatic splurge.
I've googled that combo (along with the Lord's name) in vain!
dasmanI’d have thought a slightly underpowered amp would have an internal either/or switch between outs. If you can damage the amp by having two sets of headphones plugged in even if the intent is to use only one, that’s troubling.
I might pluck my hoary MAD Ear++ out of storage after all, since clients and I could listen together with that amp.
VarholiaglimpI doubt you would damage the amp with two sets of headphones plugged in. although it might not sound good because there could be interaction with the two sets of headphones.
dasmanHello dasman and Varholiaglimp,
Checking with Korotnam to see if his Liquid Carbon is the first version.
Should not be an issue with this version per Alex.
Thank you for the link!
dasmanHi dasman,
Korotnam confirmed that his Liquid Carbon is a V1 and the issue was fixed on V2+.
Alex further confirmed that it should not be an issue on version 2 and up. :)
CEE_TEEThat's tremendous news, CEE_TEE! I might not be able to use two sets of headphones at once with the LCX, but at least my amp would survive if I plugged in both.
Thank you! Turns out, this is an extremely versatile system. :) The LCX+SDAC is all you need with your computer and headphones or in-ear-monitors (IEMs) to have a great musical experience.
And, this DAC/Amp combo can be used to test other gear (if you ever wish to): -LCX+SDAC allows you to compare the internal DAC with an external DAC. The LCX can be fed from external sources (DACs, CD players, digital audio players). -The LCX+SDAC can be used as a DAC into another amp. You may want to try a tube amp on top. -Single-ended versus balanced operation…you can try your headphones and in-ear monitors on both outputs. -The LCX+SDAC can accept single-ended or balanced DACs.
The LCX+SDAC is a very high-quality audiophile Swiss Army Knife for sound. Topology - Quiet, Powerful Alex Cavalli and I have had many conversations over the course of the past year about what makes the Liquid Carbon amplifier topology special.
The original purpose for the Liquid Carbon was to make a high-quality, low noise balanced IEM amp with a gain of 1x, with the additional features of having a gain of 3x and a single-ended output for convenience.
The LCX utilizes unity gain current feedback discrete operational amplifiers derived from the output buffers used in the highly-regarded Liquid Glass amplifier. The Liquid Carbon’s balanced & bridged design rejects noise in the circuit, and can produce the clean power needed for both IEMs and headphones.
Grace Design Standard DAC (SDAC) There are phase-splitters in the LCX that convert the SDAC signal into balanced. I've done my own testing and can definitely tell a difference between the balanced and single-ended outputs with the SDAC.
Using Noble K10 IEMs with balanced cable (and adapter to 4-pin XLR), I can report that the Noble K10 balanced out of the LCX+SDAC is a great pairing...