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CEntrance Reserve Series Speaker Cables
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CEntrance Reserve Series Speaker Cables
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Product Description
With a solid build that lives up to the CEntrance name, the Reserve Series speaker cables feature polyethylene insulation on the inside and a polyester grain finish on the outside—delivering strong environmental protection in a sleek package that'll stand the test of time. Using patented MultiBraid technology, these copper cables offer incredibly high reproduction accuracy, and the gold-plated terminals feature low connection impedance Read More
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keyboard_arrow_downrichard.1.bradshaw
74
Dec 8, 2016
why anyone but a "high quality" 8 footcablevwhen it takes at least 100 feet to have signal loss on a generic 18 gauge cable. Don't be stupid. Spend elsewhere.
kuhnsrc
91
Jun 6, 2017
Hahaha you made such a good point about the scope probes. If conductor burn-in was a thing, you would be more afraid of physically moving the cables than anything else, as moving the cables literally bends the metallic crystals, but that doesn't seem to make a difference to audiophools. Logic, reason and real data (Not the pseudo data they use when describing the effects of various snake oils) is lost on them.
LoganPhyve
93
Jun 6, 2017
ITT: people that think expensive cables make a difference arguing with people that know better
LoganPhyve
93
Jun 12, 2017
Ah, yeah. Nope, not me either, lol. But now we're best friends. This is the one and only Massdrop account I have.
You'd want to compare graphs or outputs using known input test sources, reference tracks, and compare the results at the scope between your test wires and a control wire. If it were me I'd probably start with a precision function generator on a good DAC, and output that to a scope with your test wires in between. Then move on to various forms of recorded hifi audio. Record your data, compile, and compare results.
The machine will show you what, if anything, is incorrect in the signal between the various test wires. Once you have that, get someone to help you blind AB test using crap, control, and premium, after you know where the issues are. If you can pick the superior wire more than half the time, you may be on to something. You'd have to have measurable, repeatable success. Simply doing a listening AB test is nothing but exercise without the answer key when comparing something so infinitesimally insignificant as wire grades.
You'd want to compare graphs or outputs using known input test sources, reference tracks, and compare the results at the scope between your test wires and a control wire. If it were me I'd probably start with a precision function generator on a good DAC, and output that to a scope with your test wires in between. Then move on to various forms of recorded hifi audio. Record your data, compile, and compare results.
The machine will show you what, if anything, is incorrect in the signal between the various test wires. Once you have that, get someone to help you blind AB test using crap, control, and premium, after you know where the issues are. If you can pick the superior wire more than half the time, you may be on to something. You'd have to have measurable, repeatable success. Simply doing a listening AB test is nothing but exercise without the answer key when comparing something so infinitesimally insignificant as wire grades.
sockpuppy
451
Jun 13, 2017
>people telling you that you wasted hundreds of dollars on copper wire hard to take?
What the fuck are you raving about? I use Belden cable, I don't recall what it cost but surely not more than $30-40. Have fun messing around with unbent coat hangers, I am not sure what you are trying to prove here but as long as it makes you happy that's what counts.
What the fuck are you raving about? I use Belden cable, I don't recall what it cost but surely not more than $30-40. Have fun messing around with unbent coat hangers, I am not sure what you are trying to prove here but as long as it makes you happy that's what counts.
GUTB
238
Dec 6, 2016
Audio cable engineering is very interesting, and a subject of deep theoretical research into the field of electrical physics. There are many different strategies used to achieve many different desirable effects used by high-end cable manufacturers. When you are more knowledgeable about the topic, you can learn to judge cables based on the technology, materials and construction used.
For example, I can analyze these CEntrance cables this way: they don't use OFC or OCC copper, and aren't cryo-treated. That means they will produce normal amounts of self-noise caused by electrons jumping across copper crystal boundaries. The connectors have not been treated with any special technology or plating materials, although gold isn't bad. The key design factor in these cables seems to be its multi-layer conductor technology which uses the skin effect phenomena where lower frequencies tend to travel through the center and higher frequencies tend to travel though the outer edges of a conductor.
For example, I can analyze these CEntrance cables this way: they don't use OFC or OCC copper, and aren't cryo-treated. That means they will produce normal amounts of self-noise caused by electrons jumping across copper crystal boundaries. The connectors have not been treated with any special technology or plating materials, although gold isn't bad. The key design factor in these cables seems to be its multi-layer conductor technology which uses the skin effect phenomena where lower frequencies tend to travel through the center and higher frequencies tend to travel though the outer edges of a conductor.
St0rmr3v3ng3
65
Dec 12, 2016
And this is why every sensible person takes a huge bow around self proclaimed "Audiophiles". When you cant prove the superiority of the stuff you claim being better with any hard evidence whatsoever, why should anyone give your claims any honour?
At the end if you wanna see your cult shattered, just buy a couple of normal and premium cables and ask a friend to wire them up to a pair of headphones while you are blindfolded. Take a dozen or more listening tests and see yourself failing to hear the premiumness of those"premium" cables.
Double blind tests - debunking pseudoscience like homeopathy, magical stones, bio resonances and other quackery since 1835 :)
At the end if you wanna see your cult shattered, just buy a couple of normal and premium cables and ask a friend to wire them up to a pair of headphones while you are blindfolded. Take a dozen or more listening tests and see yourself failing to hear the premiumness of those"premium" cables.
Double blind tests - debunking pseudoscience like homeopathy, magical stones, bio resonances and other quackery since 1835 :)
filthyBlumpkin
13
Dec 12, 2016
GUTBI could make a car out of platinum friend... still gonna get smoked by a p100d, but cost 1000x more ;) *you can polish a turd
richard.1.bradshaw
74
Dec 9, 2016
massdrop. this post is insulting to the audiophile community. Spend $260 and make no impact on your system. Not sure what massdrop is thinking here.
kuhnsrc
91
Jun 6, 2017
So high gauge is bad? explain this then? https://www.thecableco.com/Product/The-Grand-Master-Evolution
PigmonkeY
1082
Aug 9, 2018
This thread is full of some of the most hilarious audiofool stuff I've ever seen.
I'll double blind my 10 dollar self-made cables against this stuff any day. Maybe the connectors are put on better than a cheap cable, but they're not put on 80 dollars better.
There's a reason why recording studios have settled on neutrik connectors and other INDUSTRY STANDARD stuff. It's because it works without having all the audiofool wankery in it.
I'll double blind my 10 dollar self-made cables against this stuff any day. Maybe the connectors are put on better than a cheap cable, but they're not put on 80 dollars better.
There's a reason why recording studios have settled on neutrik connectors and other INDUSTRY STANDARD stuff. It's because it works without having all the audiofool wankery in it.
Qwervy
464
Aug 15, 2018
The increase in sound quality would be very minimal and not worth the price difference. However if your extreme-purist/audiophile then you'd probably be willing to spend that much.
Qwervy
464
Aug 15, 2018
If you run balanced signals in all cable runs too the amp you remove the noise. The runs from the amp to the speaker do not really need to be shielded as there is no amp to amplify the noise.
Having shielded cat-6 cable makes no difference unless there is an amplifier of sorts downstream.
Having shielded cat-6 cable makes no difference unless there is an amplifier of sorts downstream.
Hueston
128
Feb 19, 2015
"the audiophile-grade copper cables offer incredibly high reproduction accuracy while the gold-plated terminals feature low connection impedance"
Monster Cables' marketing department is at it again.... I'm sure CEntrance is a reputable audio company but putting a 300$ msrp on cables that probably costs 5 dollars to manufacture at MOST is ridiculous. What is "audiophile grade copper" and since when was 8ft of copper so expensive? You can find similar and better quality pre made cables at a fraction of the cost. Better yet, make them yourself, you can source better materials for that price and make them the length you want. For shame massdrop and CEntrance, it really makes me feel like i am walking into a Best Buy.
Monster Cables' marketing department is at it again.... I'm sure CEntrance is a reputable audio company but putting a 300$ msrp on cables that probably costs 5 dollars to manufacture at MOST is ridiculous. What is "audiophile grade copper" and since when was 8ft of copper so expensive? You can find similar and better quality pre made cables at a fraction of the cost. Better yet, make them yourself, you can source better materials for that price and make them the length you want. For shame massdrop and CEntrance, it really makes me feel like i am walking into a Best Buy.
mullidan
0
Mar 31, 2016
My question exactly. How can you go from 1 -> many without a device to filter the input into their respective frequency channels? Maybe its a wire thickness (resistance) thing??? So, a lower frequency prefers to travel on a lower resistance wire which would create the "filter" ?
fasc
28
Apr 1, 2016
Small correction: It is not called "skin effect", but rather "skinning your customers" approach...:-)
kuhnsrc
91
Jun 6, 2017
If you think that this drop is silly, this guy explains the concept of these cables pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4
chris3833
0
Jun 9, 2017
Small bits from this are correct. But there is a difference in cables, and I know first hand. No I don't have examples which I guess defeats my argument right there. But oh well. My background is as a musician/audio engineer/recording engineer/record producer. Steaming from metal like Spite, Ministry, Disturbed, Kings X, to Reba McEntire. You can actually see the difference in the incoming, recorded wav signals via switching to different cables. Some are not as pronounced as others, and some are more pronounced than others. I agree that Monster is a overpriced and claims are crazy. They are a middle of the road cable. That's all. Are they as good as Mogami? No. But how far are they from Mogami? Not very far when your looking at 1 track. But when you take 96 tracks and compound it, that little 1/64th of sound can come out much larger in the long run. Making it sound noticeably different without zooming in on the wav files 100x.
Cables are like diamonds. If your copper has deposit's in the actual copper(which happens quit frequently)it will take off more of the high end. Let's say a 3'cable with high deposits sounds like a 20'regular cable. It will have a noticeably less defined sound. Now your ears are like muscles. If your used to listening to shitty audio you won't be able to tell the difference. But if your listing to great recordings, with a great DAC, great monitors, and great source files, then you will definitely be able to hear the difference! But many cable companies including Monster do highway robbery. This makes you think that all good cables are bullshit. Just like the DEA saying we don't need pain pills. Well just because a small bunch of people are getting doped up doesn't mean that when I get my are cut off in a car accident I don't need pain meds. Or let's say back in 1984 when the fascist Tipper Gore took rock music to court saying it was killing our kids...just because 1 kid killed himself while listening to Ozzie... Seems like your reading into things too much. Reminds me of sheep. Letting the herder heard you! But really cable's are there for 1 purpose. To carry an electrical signal from one end to the other without losing degradation. Well by the laws of physics, no matter what degradation will happen! It's just how much and to what extent that it does. Been involved with this argument before and in the end even with proof the starter of the argument refused to believe because they blinded themselves with their own bullshit. Won't be the first time, nor the last! Well how about this question-What is the most conductive metal?
Cables are like diamonds. If your copper has deposit's in the actual copper(which happens quit frequently)it will take off more of the high end. Let's say a 3'cable with high deposits sounds like a 20'regular cable. It will have a noticeably less defined sound. Now your ears are like muscles. If your used to listening to shitty audio you won't be able to tell the difference. But if your listing to great recordings, with a great DAC, great monitors, and great source files, then you will definitely be able to hear the difference! But many cable companies including Monster do highway robbery. This makes you think that all good cables are bullshit. Just like the DEA saying we don't need pain pills. Well just because a small bunch of people are getting doped up doesn't mean that when I get my are cut off in a car accident I don't need pain meds. Or let's say back in 1984 when the fascist Tipper Gore took rock music to court saying it was killing our kids...just because 1 kid killed himself while listening to Ozzie... Seems like your reading into things too much. Reminds me of sheep. Letting the herder heard you! But really cable's are there for 1 purpose. To carry an electrical signal from one end to the other without losing degradation. Well by the laws of physics, no matter what degradation will happen! It's just how much and to what extent that it does. Been involved with this argument before and in the end even with proof the starter of the argument refused to believe because they blinded themselves with their own bullshit. Won't be the first time, nor the last! Well how about this question-What is the most conductive metal?
kuhnsrc
91
Jun 9, 2017
chris3833I admire your dedication. I'm going to ignore the sheep part, and however you interpret that is okay with me. It's pretty obvious that silver is the most conductive metal, with copper coming in at a close second, which is why cable manufacturers won't usually go the extra mile to use silver instead of copper because there is almost not return on their investment. I do have some 10 awg cable (not speaker cable) that is made up of dozens of copper wires plated in silver because of it's resistance to oxidation, and in some of the extreme environments that it's used in, that actually matters, and it is also sheathed in PTFE, making it one of the most versatile and well built spools of wire I own, but I would never waste such an expensive piece of metal on something like speaker wires, where it makes no difference. I'll go on amazon and buy generic speaker cable, and get two conductors bundled together with enough copper to handle more than the power my system can draw. Back on track though, if someone wanted to show me, with a high fidelity microphone, the actual difference in wave characteristics, like do some Fourier analysis on the signal received by the microphone, with the cable type being the only system variable that was changed, if you could show me that it makes a difference, I would happily believe you. The problem is that no one has done this. And yeah, the argument will come up that "Oh your ears are more sensitive than the microphone because the bitrate on the microphone is finite" well so is your DAC, and that doesn't seem to be stopping you from believing that cables make a difference. You can spend a million dollars on the best DAC in the universe, and the bitrate will be fixed, and anything you play on it will have that bitrate, or it will be upsampled. Things that supposedly happen on the atomic level will happen soooo much faster than whatever bitrate you are using, that it will never be the limiting reagent. If, by some miracle, you could have your audio sampled and played back at some trillion samples/sec, then I would believe that it would make a tangible difference, however the resolution of the human ear is impossibly far from that limit, so it wouldn't even come close to mattering. I have designed and built speakers from the ground up, and that says nothing about my skills as an audio engineer. They were mediocre at best, muddy and bassy, without enough representation in the highs, and I knew they were bad, and I knew I would never be as good at this as JBL or Yamaha, but I had a lot of fun. In my various experiments with these things, I discovered something. I was using this monster speaker cable that I got at a yard sale for like $3, it was about 100' long and 12 gauge. Good shit, but it was old. I didn't have a lot of money or knowledge, so I used that to drive one half of my speaker system, the other half I used some generic car wire, 18 gauge I think. I plugged in the system, and started listening, and one half of it sounded awful. Like it was just crummy, and honestly it sounded like it was clipping. I check, and sure enough, one of the connections I had made with the monster cable was shorting out, the little treads of copper at the terminal had managed to touch in all the shuffling around. I fixed the problem, and then started playing music again, and there was literally no difference. It sounded amazing on both sides and I was happy as could be. The gauge was something I was worried about, so I cranked it right up and both sides sung like the Sistine chapel on Sunday. I have no reason to believe that wire quality makes a difference, gauge might, but I seriously doubt it if you are below the current threshold. I really, really want someone to prove me wrong, like actually prove me wrong with recorded audio. I would love to know what is actually happening, but I can't just take some guy's word on the internet because his feelings told him something that couldn't be proven true. It's like religion, I'm an agnostic atheist, I don't believe that there is a god, but if someone were to show me that I'm wrong, with good, hard evidence, then I'd be happy to believe them. Until then, I'm gonna stick to the laws of the universe, governed by things out of my control.
Edit: Spelling
Edit: Spelling
simonuca
23
Sep 14, 2018
At last, they are shipping! Can wait to get them.
To the any wire can do it crowd: I respect your views and opinions, but to trash someone or something because you don't believe or trust it, it's not a free pass to be disrespectful.
I'm willing to pay for a 100 USD copper wire cable for my audio system and that doesn't make me an idiot.
Stop the hate and embrace the diversity and respectful interchange of opinions.
Have a nice one everyone :)
jhnunez1960
0
Jan 23, 2019
simonucaHOLA SIMONPuedes colocar el enlace de la chaqueta por favor. Juan Nuñez Mesina - Ralun - Puerto Varas
GhettoRice
77
Feb 20, 2015
I would still like clarification on this statement
"There are 7 separate insulated wires inside every cable. Each wire serves different frequencies. There is this thing in Physics called "skin effect" that has bass frequencies travel in the middle of the wire and treble frequencies travel towards the edge of the wire. We are actually creating separate bass and treble wires to allow the frequencies to get there without interference. It's an important difference from standard cables and it becomes quite clear once you plug these in."
There seems to be this idea that since they sell stuff here CEntrance doesn't have to explain themselves to anyone but using some buzz words to people they already know are duped by this kind of tactic. CEntrance is not beyond reproach nor should anyone think they sell crap, but once a producer enters the mass margin market of cables with these descriptions is treading a fine line.
To say this is not the place to "discuss" the merits of you product is very telling that there might not be anything but the aforementioned buzz words.
Edit: @RShack not buying into overpriced marketing hype at a supposed msrp of $300 and putting up with fluff responses from an educated designer is not being "nice"
"There are 7 separate insulated wires inside every cable. Each wire serves different frequencies. There is this thing in Physics called "skin effect" that has bass frequencies travel in the middle of the wire and treble frequencies travel towards the edge of the wire. We are actually creating separate bass and treble wires to allow the frequencies to get there without interference. It's an important difference from standard cables and it becomes quite clear once you plug these in."
There seems to be this idea that since they sell stuff here CEntrance doesn't have to explain themselves to anyone but using some buzz words to people they already know are duped by this kind of tactic. CEntrance is not beyond reproach nor should anyone think they sell crap, but once a producer enters the mass margin market of cables with these descriptions is treading a fine line.
To say this is not the place to "discuss" the merits of you product is very telling that there might not be anything but the aforementioned buzz words.
Edit: @RShack not buying into overpriced marketing hype at a supposed msrp of $300 and putting up with fluff responses from an educated designer is not being "nice"
GhettoRice
77
Feb 21, 2015
Well I'll leave you to your "marketing" then if you and the defenders keep going back to what "others" overcharge for.
For skin effect to actually be an issue here it needs to be relevant to below 20khz which is what the percentage of conductor calculation is useful for. Calculate the area of the wire ((pi * radius) squared) - calculate the unused diameter (diameter - 2*depth) - calculate the unused area (pi R squared again) - Percent used = ((total_area - unused_area) / total_area) * 100 Using this method, 12 AWG wire uses 63%
This is important as in the audio band, your selling point of skin effect is a non sequitur argument.
As for your listening test, 24/192 and DSD is again making a mountain out of a molehill. http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
For anyone interested in actual science behind the sound check u/nanliu link which is actually based on measurements http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/skin-effect-relevance-in-speaker-cables Or http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/speaker-cable-reviews-faceoff-2/speaker-cable-reviews-faceoff-2-page-2
-------------------- "The bottom line is Skin Effect is not a relevant factor of concern when choosing / designing high performance loudspeaker cables for hifi audio systems. The DC resistance and inductance of the cable are far more important factors as can be seen in our Speaker Cable Face Off and Cross Coax vs Zip Cord articles where we modeled lumped element parameters (R,L,C) of speaker cables.
For more information on skin effect and its impact on cable resistance and inductance, see Calculating Inductance of Speaker Cables.
You should question the validity and intentions of a particular cable vendor(s) when they boast in their marketing literature about solving the "Skin Effect" problem, and ask yourself, "Are they stressing this point as a means to an ends to justify their outlandish asking price of their 'exotic' speaker cables"?
Next we will look at the Fallacy of "Strand Jumping" leading to the myth of diode rectification and how this theory cannot be sound as it violates basic Electrical Engineering Principles, the Laws of Physics, and common sense." -------------------------
Edit: make the msrp $99 like your sale and then it's wouldn't be as egregious to bloat the price to make the drop seem like a deal. These are $99 cables max on a good day. A wise consumer always makes sure a "sale" is a "sale".
Mono price is your friend for cables people. Don't be baffled by bullshit.
For skin effect to actually be an issue here it needs to be relevant to below 20khz which is what the percentage of conductor calculation is useful for. Calculate the area of the wire ((pi * radius) squared) - calculate the unused diameter (diameter - 2*depth) - calculate the unused area (pi R squared again) - Percent used = ((total_area - unused_area) / total_area) * 100 Using this method, 12 AWG wire uses 63%
This is important as in the audio band, your selling point of skin effect is a non sequitur argument.
As for your listening test, 24/192 and DSD is again making a mountain out of a molehill. http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
For anyone interested in actual science behind the sound check u/nanliu link which is actually based on measurements http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/skin-effect-relevance-in-speaker-cables Or http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/speaker-cable-reviews-faceoff-2/speaker-cable-reviews-faceoff-2-page-2
-------------------- "The bottom line is Skin Effect is not a relevant factor of concern when choosing / designing high performance loudspeaker cables for hifi audio systems. The DC resistance and inductance of the cable are far more important factors as can be seen in our Speaker Cable Face Off and Cross Coax vs Zip Cord articles where we modeled lumped element parameters (R,L,C) of speaker cables.
For more information on skin effect and its impact on cable resistance and inductance, see Calculating Inductance of Speaker Cables.
You should question the validity and intentions of a particular cable vendor(s) when they boast in their marketing literature about solving the "Skin Effect" problem, and ask yourself, "Are they stressing this point as a means to an ends to justify their outlandish asking price of their 'exotic' speaker cables"?
Next we will look at the Fallacy of "Strand Jumping" leading to the myth of diode rectification and how this theory cannot be sound as it violates basic Electrical Engineering Principles, the Laws of Physics, and common sense." -------------------------
Edit: make the msrp $99 like your sale and then it's wouldn't be as egregious to bloat the price to make the drop seem like a deal. These are $99 cables max on a good day. A wise consumer always makes sure a "sale" is a "sale".
Mono price is your friend for cables people. Don't be baffled by bullshit.
eypsi
9
Feb 21, 2015
GhettoRiceDo you work for Monoprice? Basically the same cable (minus the bullshit litz design to combat the bullshit skin effect) is sold there for.... what? $98/pair:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=11938&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=11938&seq=1&format=2
aeberbach
233
Dec 9, 2016
CanadianPenguinOh please. This is 99.999999% pure, oxygen-free, directional, quantum snake oil.
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