Last night I pulled the trigger on the Edition XX and am getting psyched. I have both the 6xx and 4xx. I really like the 6xx and I expected them to be my preferred headphone, but usually it's the 4xx that I reach for when in the mood to listen to music. The 6xx are great phones, they sound great, their build - fit and finish excellent, but I find after a while, I tire and am reminded I am wearing headphones, and I reach for the 4xx. For me the 4xx sound are the next level; though the difference is slightly more than subtle in that regard. The the biggest difference is it's "air", it's openness, and I forget I have them on and and just enjoy. With that in mind, my preference seems to be for the Hifiman Planar sound and so I am greatly anticipating these headphones. For those who have experience with the Edition X V2 any recommendation on an amp to pair it or what direction to go in that regard. I have read in some reviews, like for the DarkVoice, not to pair planars with them or a tube amp. Anyone have insight on this topic willing to share? Thanks.
ericleckeyI have had the same experience with the Hifiman 400i being a much more enjoyable and 3D sounding experience than the Senn HD 58X. For that reason, I am also interested in these. I was actually looking at the Anandas... which are $999. Ugh. Expensive hobby all around. I am interested, but I am not sold on these.
ericleckeyWhat’s crazy, I’ve been 💩 on the 4XX, and recommending people the 58X or 6XX over the 4XX. I’m now picking up the 4XX over them for some reason; I think it’s the overall spacious smoothness it puts out. It might not have the level of detail as the 6XX, or the bass found on the 58X, but what it does differently, is so pleasant to my ears. One of the reasons why I might pull the trigger on the XX.
JonnyModenaYes, agreed, when I saw the drop, and the price.... I was immediately intrigued... my line of thought was at that price... $600...., possibly my only chance to pick up a set of headphones usually way out of my price range. The controversy with the headband is not an issue as long as it's functional and durable. My 4XX headband seems robust. I followed quite a few reviews for the Edition X - V2 and they have been very good, to highly regarded, to flat out being in awe. In the very good colum, the caveat was it's price, usually between $1,300 to $1,700 range, they thought it should have a better build quality. Not that the quality was bad, but for that price, they expected premium materials such as real leather, wood, metal, and not polymer. So, at the price in this drop, I think it sounds like an awesome opportunity. Note: my most expensive headphones to date are the 400i when they were around $300 a few years ago, so $600 is a big deal. Without hearing them in advance, I hope I'm not being overly optimistic, but with Massdrops track record, I think it's a good calculated risk. Hope I'm not coming across as a fanatic for Massdrop, but so far it has been a good experience.
ericleckeyMy most expensive cans I paid for, we're $200 (6XX and 7XX separately). This brings me to the issue: if I'm going to spend $600 on the Edition XX, will my money better off be spent on the Massdrop X Focal Elex ($699), Aeon Flow-open ($719) or similar priced cans?! It just seems Massdrop-cans offer the best price to performance, since technically, they would be priced more, if they weren't a collaboration. Well, it looks like I still have some time to think about it.
MegazineYep, that's the dilemma. For me, the logic: I like, or better yet, "prefer" the sound of the HifiMan Planar phones over any of the dynamics I own in the same price range. When considering $700 for the Focal or other similar priced, it's just hard to pull that trigger. But it wasn't so for the Edition XX. It's a matter of personal taste and what I perceive to be a good value, so the Edition XX sounded like (to me) a great buy. At the time, I was not in the market for any headphones... But when I saw the Edition XX drop, I knew that it was a great price and instantly thought they were something I would seriously consider as I never expected to be able to own a set. I went through the whole process of justifying the purchase, including hours of online research, and then coming to the conclusion to get them. It took me a few days to reach that point. But they piqued my interest as soon as I saw the drop, the others not so.
Agreed, this Massdrop/Hifiman collaboration is something else. Rhetorically, how can they possibly reduce the price on the E X V2 that much ? The original X Version 1 was around $1,700. Were they grossly overpriced in the beginning. Improvements in the manufacturing process. The collaboration. All of above ?
MegazineI agree on the spacious feeling Hifiman phones provide. IDC if they’re technically less detailed that the Senn 6 lineup... they sound more pleasing to my ear and this warrants me spending my $ on them. You know?
MegazineI can at least comment on the Elex vs AFO and will say the Elex are superior to me. I actually returned the AFO as they are just too lean and cold sounding. They're as bass-light as the Elex but don't offer the same extension or sense of impact. That was my biggest issue with them was their lack of dynamics and cold, analytical sound. I'm sure with certain genres they could really shine but the Elex just sound great with everything (except maybe Hip-Hop). Easy to power and sound great out of anything. I personally think they look better (the AFO look "alien" to me) and come with nicer accessories (balanced cable). Personally, ever since I got the Elex and Elegia and listened to the Clears, it's been very hard to go back to a lot of other headphone manufacturers as they just lack that dynamic sound that Focal crushes.
All that said, I will say HFM cans tend to have great dynamics as well just not to the point of Focal. They are a bit more smooth in the mids. I would put Audeze up there but they are just too dark overall for my taste. MrSpeakers tend to be more on the lean/analytical side of listening which I am not personally a fan of. Fostex planars haven't aged well and were pretty dark as well from what I recall.
Long story short, I don't think you could go wrong with these or the Elex. While I prefer the Elex, judging by the graphs, I think I would enjoy these a lot as well.
jaydunndiddit
Thanks for sharing your evals. Interesting. The focals do intrigue me as well. Maybe put them on my list in future. Most, or "all" of my good cans that are more audiophile grade are open. I would like to get a set of closed audiophije cans and I saw Focal has a set.
ericleckeyYes, the Elegia. I picked mine up the day they launched during RMAF and haven't been happier. Using them balanced out of the THX 789 is a real treat. They really are the perfect compliment to the Elex and really do sound a lot like a closed version of the Clears. But, when you think about it, there really aren't many other TOTL closed backs like the Elegia that sound as good as they do or are actually portable. I think they strike the perfect balance of all those things and are reasonably priced (considering all things) while doing so.
MegazineI just went to a Southeast, MI headphone meet 11-3-2018. I listened to the Utopias and Clears, the LCD2,3,4. Honestly, the Utopias and Clears were nice but they're kind of irritating because they have an irritating dynamics that make a relaxing listen impossible. What really blew me away? The HiFiMan's Edition X v.1. These blew everything away regardless of cost. Nothing could touch them. The second most impressive headphone? The HiFiMan HE400i (for the money). After that head-fi meet, it was HiFiMan all the way. Not interested in anything else! If I was you, I'd skip the Elex and take a chance on the Edition XX. Planers are just superior to any dynamic driver....Beryllium be damned. If the Edition XX is anything near the Edition X, it should blow away the Elex--no shit! Oh, and the Aeon Flow was at the meet also.....crap by comparison to the Edition X.
ShawnP.WatsonJust a FYI, the Elex does not have beryllium drivers; that's the Utopia. The Elex, Elegia, Clear, and Elear all use aluminum-magnesium cones and varying coils. Also, you could just enjoy the distortion characteristics of planars more. The Elex actually has less distortion across almost the entire range compared to the HEXX. They're both so low it's splitting hairs but I find that interesting for a dynamic driver vs orthodynamic. The original HEX also had more ringing but I haven't seen CSD's for the HEXX so maybe that's going to look better as well now just like the distortion (going off Jude's graphs).
And I agree with you somewhat on smoothness. Focal in general are not what I would call smooth. At least, not when you compare them to a 650/6XX. They are highly dynamic. And that's either a love it or hate it thing. They're one of the few headphones that get better the louder you turn them up. HiFiMan's for me tend to fall apart at louder volumes and start to sound colored, grainy, and uneven. This is the same issue I had with the AFO as well not including it's lean, cold sound. But, I listen around ~80 dB so it might be a personal thing.
jaydunndidditI noticed that with my lovely 4XX. Once you crank the volume up, they tend to lose detail and sound slightly muddy. Not in a very noticeable way, but it's there.
MegazineYeah. The best way I can describe it as is "grainy." There's something there that's going on that sounds odd every now and then. It's not always noticeable but when it is, I can't unhear it. The Shure 1540 was another headphone that was like this. I enjoyed pretty much everything about them too and ultimately returned em for the same reason. Tyll had mentioned it in a review and I just dismissed it. He was very right and I should have listened. And while I probably do listen louder than most on average, I don't think it's THAT loud to make a headphone start falling apart and sounding weird.
It's probably why I enjoy Focal headphones so much as they always yell to me, "TURN THAT SHIT UP MORE!1!" And I am more than happy to oblige. For an easy to drive headphone, they really do like being overpowered IMO and takes a bit to start unsettling their drivers. Fostex Biodyna drivers are good about this too but start breaking up in the highs more.
BoostIs that really a thing? If so I might have to try some Audeze. I always thought the “grainy”, open, spacious sound, are the planar megnatic sound signature? Is this even true, is so may someone please share their feedback on owning both brands. Thank you!
BoostFrom what I've read, it has a lot to do with the incredibly thin membrane of the planar driver compared to one of a dynamic driver. Also, if you look at their THD and CSD charts, they tend to have more distortion in their high end compared to the rest of the response. I don't think it's particular to a specific brand but to incredibly thin planar membranes in general.
BoostFrom my personal experience. After upgrading from a $300 desktop dac/amp to a higher end unit .... the Grace M920 sold on massdrop, I noticed an improvement... The cheaper unit was pretty good until it was turned up to high level... then noticed there was a grainy quality or even slightly audibly distorted when pushing it, it sounded grainy. After the upgrade, I could honestly say it was an big improvement across the board especially when turned up. I haven't notice any graininess with my HE 400i and 4xx now with current setup. It was obvious before. But that being said, comparing the 4xx to the 6xx, turned up, i do notice that the 4xx has a certain sibilance, more so than the 6xx...
VollyIm using smsl su-8 balanced with usb input or the coaxial input from iquadio digi+. And a schiit amp. The grainyness becomes noticeable after hearing the LCD2, its just so much better.
BoostIDK bud...what amp you running with the S-U8? Which Hifiman do you have? Which part of the sound spectrum you finding the grain in? Is it a particular song you're hearing it or is it in everything?
I haven't tried the LCD2's yet but I have heard they have much darker presentation with a more relaxed treble region?! Are you finding that with the LCD2's, maybe the LCD2's suit you better?!
Side note: How is the SU-8 going? I'm looking at getting one very soon! Have you played with the filters on it? Might be interesting to experiment.
VollyThe grainyness is everywhere. Im using a schiit amp with balanced cables. Fully balanced system. I dont find the lcd dark. The lcd2 has great depth dynamics and detail. Maybe less bright than the he400i that I am calling grainy. The LCD-2 is not bass heavy but it has impact. Of course I have a lot of power reserve. love the su-8. The balanced output really opened things up for me as I have a balances amp also. And the filters are nice but I like to set it once and forget it. Just dont like the clicks in between the source selection on the su-8. Now Im wondering if its worth trying the edition xx or just upgrading to another lcd. So far not too crazy about he-400i grainy sound, although great for the money. Will the heXX be as good as the LCD series? Smooth? Will it have the same impact?
BoostI can only speak for the Edition X but more of an airy, warmer sound with good technicalities. Very balanced and dare I say, neutral'ish! Where the HD650 are said to be a bit dark and smooth, then the Edition X is a breath of fresh air regarding it's musical presentation. Certainly a great headphone for me but not sure on your taste.
Grab the LCD4z and call it a day! ;D
Anyways, I'd be looking to grab the SU-8 and by all accounts, seems to be a great balanced DAC.
Ty for your feedback @Boost!
VollyOne thing to add is that you will enjoy the SU-8 best with good quality files. And for some reason the raspberry pi3 with iquadio coaxial as the source sounds much better than pc/ios usb. Even youtube sounds decent through the iquadio source. Im curious about what the top of the line ALLO hat is capable of. But thats almost 3 times the price.
BoostI dare say the Pi3 has a better (more dedicated) clock than an average PC/iOS, probably less EMI noise?
Darko has done a decent write-up/video on the Allo, Allo done a decent job on trying to improve upon the Pi3 and turning it in to a really decent audio product! If this is the direction you are going within your audio chain, then it would be worth the investment! https://darko.audio/2018/11/a-short-film-about-the-allo-digione-signature/
Does the SU-8 still let through some noise population with your setup with out the Pi3 in the chain?
(Sorry for being off-topic OP)
VollyOnly noise I notice on the su-8 is when its searching for the best conversion on questionable quality files is that there is some clicking. I think it is looking for the best possible parameters. And for the pi3 they have the Allo Katana... forgot if it is balanced though. And it is such a small package. Perfect for todays living.
VollyYes looks nice but this one is a little bit newer. http://iqaudio.co.uk/hats/47-pi-dac-pro.html
also for xlr you will have to solder on the connectors yourself but the terminals are there if you read the whole page. Then you need a case with xlr, maybe the one from hifiberry.
What is nice is that you will have everything in a nice package, integrated dac straight into the Schiit. Plus you can airplay using Moode or volumio (operating systems on the Pi) so you can run the system headless and control from your phone. Otherwise you can get the digi+ and feed it into the su-8 and still run headless. Depends if you want fewer components. With the pi you can put everything on a NAS so that is convenient also. Or you can just insert a USB key. It has flexibility. The initial installation was challenging I have to say. It is all linux based. So far no problems on my end.
VollyFYI you should check the site http://www.modmypi.com
I was able to select the Iqaudio dac+pro, with the pi3 b+, the required case and power supply all for around $100. Now I feel like getting one. I do think the su-8 has a slight edge but the pi setup would be way more sleek. And the possibility of a upgraded power supply might even improve things further.